|
|||
Don't wanna get got.
As a fan and official one of my least favorite parts of the game is offensive players who aren't trying to play basketball but rather garner foul calls. Kids who kick their legs out when the shoot, running into everyone they can on the way to hoop trying to hear a whistle and throw up a potential and 1 and trip the foul line . . .basically everything James Harden does everytime any sticks an arm near a ball screen he's trying to use.
IN FIBA, we don't have the automatic hand checking and freedom of play rules in NFHS. So we get more liberty in making judgements. I do work in Maine some over the summers and will again this summer. If the defense isn't holding or handchecking but is reaching for the ball or just moving arms to garner momentum defensively, and the offense chooses attack into the defense's body while they arm is there, how generous are you in allowing the defense a chance to get the arm out and off. I'm not talking about d trying to hold space with an arm bar but rather a player who's gotten arm trapped between himself and offense?
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game! Me: Thanks, but why the big rush. Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we! |
|
|||
I'm not quite sure I understand the question, and I sure don't get the picture you are trying to create, but:
1) a collapsed arm bar isn't an automatic foul 2) it's a foul for the defense to *place* (note who is doing the action) a hand continuously ... on the offense |
|
|||
You can't use your arms to impede a ball-handler. Those defenders are sticking their arms out in from of themselves. No different to me than when a post player sticks his arms/elbows outside their cylinder and a defender runs into it trying to get around.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR |
|
|||
Quote:
Lets talk about your number 2. Assume there has been touch or tag on the close out (first touch by defense) and while gapping the ball carrier arms up and active, the ball carrier drops shoulder and attacks hard. In moving to respond the defenses arm/hand/ elbow etc ends up in the space between their bodies or torsos as the offense continues to try to attack forward. Obviously the d didn't try to "touch" the ball carrier, but touching is going on and the longer the the arm stays there the more advantage the defender can negate/obtain particulary if offense continues to move forward. I'm wondering how generous you would be in giving the defender time and movement to get that arm out.
__________________
Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game! Me: Thanks, but why the big rush. Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we! |
|
|||
I think these are the rule references you are referring to:
Art. 4. The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a player with the ball: a. Keeping a hand or forearm on an opponent; b. Putting two hands on an opponent; c. Continually jabbing an opponent by extending an arm(s) and placing a hand or forearm on the opponent, and d. Using an arm bar to impede the progress of a dribbler. Art. 6. A player shall not extend the arm(s) fully or partially other than vertically so that freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arm(s) occurs. Where your judgement would most likely have to be used is: are they using an arm bar to impede or is a natural position and is there any "extension" of the arm by the defender. |
|
|||
Quote:
|
|
|||
Quote:
At times, I find it difficult to enforce all of the rules against the defender of a ball handler when no one, including me, enforces rule 4-24 article 7 which indicates it is illegal to use a hand/forearm to prevent a defender from attacking the ball during a dribble/shot. Every kid in the country is taught to keep their off arm between the ball and the defender so defenders are prevented from stealing the ball. Imagine, teaching kids to violate a rule.
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist? |
|
|||
Penalty ???
Quote:
from attacking the ball during a dribble or when throwing for goal. So what's the penalty with no contact (just preventing)? If a player does something illegal then there must be a penalty? Right? Violation? Tell him to, "Stop doing that"? Prevent with contact? Player control foul?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Apr 10, 2018 at 04:58pm. |
|
|||
4-24-7 would probably apply if the offensive player contacted the defensive player by using his off-arm or hand. Do I understand the intent of that rule correctly. AfAIK, there are no non-contact personal fouls in the rulebook, and any 4-24-7 infraction would fall into the personal foul category, because it is a live-ball offense. So, simply covering the ball using a forearm while dribbling would not be a 4-24-7 violation, if no contact is involved.
|
|
|||
Quote:
Billy raised a good question. We have some rules written that do not necessarily and specifically providing a penalty. Another one involves teammates grasping/locking arms. Not allowed by rule but no penalty is providing...at least without contact. And if there is contact, who gets the foul? Say you have 3 teammates locking arms forming a wall/screen. Defender runs into, not a player's specific torso, but rather the locked arms. Who gets the foul? All 3?
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist? |
|
|||
Quote:
Technically, the foul for contact with grasped/locking arms would be a multiple foul, charged to all 3 players involved. Since the foul is a team control foul in this situation, no free throws are attempted, and the opposing team would receive a throw-in at the spot nearest the foul. |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Wanna get away Moment..LOl | Umpmazza | Football | 6 | Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:28am |
I wanna be a FIFA Referee. | JRutledge | Basketball | 27 | Thu Apr 10, 2008 09:19pm |
Just wanna go home... | eyezen | Basketball | 1 | Wed Jan 24, 2007 01:54pm |
Just wanna say thanks | theboys | Basketball | 8 | Fri Jan 24, 2003 12:07pm |
Former ref, wanna get back into it. | FVB_Ryan | Basketball | 4 | Fri Aug 09, 2002 09:45am |