Team catches & shoots w/ .3 left to win in WV Tournament

[BillyMac]

From an upcoming article I'm writing for a magazine. It's been twenty-eight years and I'm sure that some Forum young'uns don't know the background of the rule.

The Trent Tucker Rule disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990 at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation: an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the Knicks player throwing the ball in, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker, who was the only player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock was not started until Tucker's shot was already in midair. Afterward, everyone said a player could not catch, plant, spin, and release a shot so quickly. The NBA determined that you cannot catch and shoot in three-tenths of a second or under. All you can do is throw it at the rim and have someone tip it in.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Trent Tucker Rule disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990 at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation: an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the Knicks player throwing the ball in, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker, who was the only player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock was not started until Tucker's shot was already in midair. Afterward, everyone said a player could not catch, plant, spin, and release a shot so quickly. The NBA determined that you cannot catch and shoot in three-tenths of a second or under. All you can do is throw it at the rim and have someone tip it in.

As a thirty-plus year retired science teacher, I know the value of context in understanding, and remember things.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From an upcoming article I'm writing for a magazine. It's been twenty-eight years and I'm sure that some Forum young'uns don't know the background of the rule.

The Trent Tucker Rule disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990 at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation: an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the Knicks player throwing the ball in, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker, who was the only player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock was not started until Tucker's shot was already in midair. Afterward, everyone said a player could not catch, plant, spin, and release a shot so quickly. The NBA determined that you cannot catch and shoot in three-tenths of a second or under. All you can do is throw it at the rim and have someone tip it in.

It is actually 0.2 seconds or less. In the NBA as in FIBA, you can catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or more.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Jay R

It is actually 0.2 seconds or less. In the NBA as in FIBA, you can catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or more.

Can confirm for NBA ruleset.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Jay R

It is actually 0.2 seconds or less. In the NBA as in FIBA, you can catch and shoot with 0.3 seconds or more.

Correct for the current NBA rule, but what was it back in 1990 when it was originally created? BillyMac's story could be correct for that time period and a change could have occurred during the intervening years.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Correct for the current NBA rule, but what was it back in 1990 when it was originally created? BillyMac's story could be correct for that time period and a change could have occurred during the intervening years.

Could be. It's certainly been the current rule for at least 15 years. I don't know if it's changed before that.

[BillyMac]

Sorry about the confusion. It's my fault.

You guys are pretty sharp. The original NBA Trent Tucker Rule, in 1990, was "less than three tenths of a second". I took some liberties (that reminds me, I've got to get my poetic license renewed, I hope my new photo comes out better than the photo on my old license) because the article is about NFHS rules.

Did you guys know that shoes with flashing lights were banned by the NBA in 1993 because of LA Gear shoes worn by 1993 by Karl Malone and Hakeem Olajuwon?

[Paintguru]

This was the state quarterfinal, right? Am I the only one surprised there was not an official's supervisor at the game? I feel like there should be to avoid these situations. I'm sure it isn't common practice, but perhaps it should be.

And to be fair, there are guys refereeing in the NFL that kick rules occasionally. This is part of the reason the VP of officiating can radio in and help. However, I totally agree that this is a basic rule that an officiating crew in the quarters should know.

[rotationslim]

I started telling this story my boy who rides the pine on a good HS Varsity team in the midwest. I got to the ".3 on the clock" part and he jumped in and said-- "they can only tap it then". I said "those particular refs didnt know that rule, how did you?" He looked at me like I am clueless (which I am) and said "we practice a play for that" So I guess good coaches do know the rule.

[justsumguy3]

Originally Posted by Paintguru

This was the state quarterfinal, right? Am I the only one surprised there was not an official's supervisor at the game? I feel like there should be to avoid these situations. I'm sure it isn't common practice, but perhaps it should be.

And to be fair, there are guys refereeing in the NFL that kick rules occasionally. This is part of the reason the VP of officiating can radio in and help. However, I totally agree that this is a basic rule that an officiating crew in the quarters should know.

There is an 'officials supervisor' there along with a 4th official at the table. This isn't the first time there has been a controversy of this magnitude at the state tournament regarding rule application.

About 10 years ago in a title game, A1 made a '3' to tie the game with around 4 seconds left. The clock expired before B could collect and inbound the ball. The supervisor allowed the officials to go to the monitor to 'make sure the shot was released in time', and then to check whether it was a 2 or 3.

While the rule allows for this in a title game, the controversy was that the shot was clearly released in time and they shouldn't have been able to check where his foot was. The shot was corrected to be a '2' and B won the title.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sorry about the confusion. It's my fault. You guys are pretty sharp. The original NBA Trent Tucker Rule, in 1990, was "less than three tenths of a second". I took some liberties because the article is about NFHS rules.

Here's my rewrite.

The “Trent Tucker Rule” disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990, at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation, an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the inbounding Knicks player, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker (Minnesota 1978–1982, NBA 1982–1993), who was the only Knicks player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock had not started until Tucker's shot was already in flight. Afterward, it was determined that a player could not catch, and release, a shot that quickly, and after the rule change, all an inbounder could do, with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period, was to pass the ball to a teammate and have them tip it in.

In addition to Trent Tucker, my article will detail rule changes associated with Leroy Edwards, George Mikan, Bob Kurland, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Lew Alcindor (Kareem Abdul Jabbar), Ralph Sampson, Darryl Dawkins, Shaquille O'Neal, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Allen Iverson, and Skylar Diggins. Most of these rule changes were originally instituted in NCAA, or NBA games, but these changes eventually trickled down to NFHS rules.