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  #76 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 11:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
You realize that it was sarcasm right? You realize that I have been saying for years how silly rules tests are for years? You realize that I took the NF test (first time in probably 15 years or so) this year for the first time and they asked about 10-15 questions about measurements from the ball. Of course, there is no diameter of a line, but who cares what it has to be if you come to a court. Are you going to not play the game if you have a line that does not fit the requirements? Heck, what if you do not have a shadow line? Are you suspending the game? So why do people put so much stock in these test when clearly in this situation the officials did not know a rule that actually might be applicable?

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Yet if you don't depend on a test, even if SOME of the questions are irrelevant, you're almost guaranteed to have poor rule knowledge across a large part of the population, particularly upon those that poo-poo the tests.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 11:43am
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On most current clocks the horn sounds at 0.0 that would mean if the clock was stopped at showed 0.1 then the time would be somewhere greater than 0.0 but less than or equal to 0.1 therefore if the clock shows 0.3 the time would be somewhere from greater than 0.2 to less than or equal to 0.3 In short it would be 0.3 or less which in turn matches up with the wording of the rule. If the clock didn't work like this then it would be a full tenth after 0.0 was displayed until the horn.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 11:53am
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Seems like the only logical solution is to just do things the way they have been done. Carry on.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 12:10pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Yet if you don't depend on a test, even if SOME of the questions are irrelevant, you're almost guaranteed to have poor rule knowledge across a large part of the population, particularly upon those that poo-poo the tests.
I look at the test the same way others look at what you say in the pre-game. Neither is the save all of these kinds of situation.

Peace
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 12:25pm
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Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
On most current clocks the horn sounds at 0.0 that would mean if the clock was stopped at showed 0.1 then the time would be somewhere greater than 0.0 but less than or equal to 0.1 therefore if the clock shows 0.3 the time would be somewhere from greater than 0.2 to less than or equal to 0.3 In short it would be 0.3 or less which in turn matches up with the wording of the rule. If the clock didn't work like this then it would be a full tenth after 0.0 was displayed until the horn.
There is.

That's why there are cases (at least in some codes) where the clock shows 0:00.0 but the horn / lights haven't gone off / on.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 12:41pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I look at the test the same way others look at what you say in the pre-game. Neither is the save all of these kinds of situation.

Peace
I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that. And I don't think Camron ever implied such.

I live in a state where the rules exam is a huge deal, to the extent that it pretty much determines the rating order. It's ridiculous, but I acknowledge that we can't scrap testing completely, otherwise you're likely to have rules kicked such as this one on a big stage even more often.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 01:25pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
There is.

That's why there are cases (at least in some codes) where the clock shows 0:00.0 but the horn / lights haven't gone off / on.

That's why I started my statemen with most clocks. I have never in my entire life been present at a game where there were zeros on the clock and no horn unless auto horn had been turned off.
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 01:28pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I don't think anyone disagrees with you on that. And I don't think Camron ever implied such.

I live in a state where the rules exam is a huge deal, to the extent that it pretty much determines the rating order. It's ridiculous, but I acknowledge that we can't scrap testing completely, otherwise you're likely to have rules kicked such as this one on a big stage even more often.
I did not say scrap testing either. I said that we put too much emphasis on it. I live in a state where we test, but the test is more reasonable. It actually asks how you adjudicate situations. Like where do you put the ball after an intentional foul or who shoots the FTs on a technical? And it is not perfect, they throw in a question or two about the court. I just think that we need to stop acting like your test score is what proves your knowledge. Even a closed book test is not going to tell you how to call a hand-checking call. I have seen some very knowledgeable officials of the rules not be able to call simple things that involve their judgment. And unless this situation was asked this year, how in the world would they review the rule outside of the test? I often look up things in the rulebook or verify things because of discussions that I might have, not because of what I said in the test.

Peace
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 01:32pm
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Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
That's why I started my statemen with most clocks. I have never in my entire life been present at a game where there were zeros on the clock and no horn unless auto horn had been turned off.
How long have you been officiating? I ask because when I started in the 90s, most clocks did not have even tenths of a second. The rule was then what it is now, you could have 0:00 on the clock and not have a horn. The horn is what ended the game, not the reading on the clock. It was in the mid-2000s when the clocks with the tenths of a second became more of a norm. I did some games even in the early 2000s that did not have clocks with tenths on the time. So Bob knows what he is talking about. Heck, you go to the right gym now you might not see tenths on all clocks still.

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  #85 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 01:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
That's why I started my statemen with most clocks.
I think most (modern) clocks work the way I describe and not the way you describe.
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 01:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
That's why I started my statemen with most clocks. I have never in my entire life been present at a game where there were zeros on the clock and no horn unless auto horn had been turned off.
The only time I've seen this is on a clock that did not show tenths of a second. It was a fairly regular occurrence in that gym to have a clock show 0:00, but nobody heard a horn.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 02:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor View Post
The only time I've seen this is on a clock that did not show tenths of a second. It was a fairly regular occurrence in that gym to have a clock show 0:00, but nobody heard a horn.
On clocks that don't have tenths, it's pretty easy to tell if it is one that goes to zero at zero or at .999 seconds. When you first flip the clock on, does it immediately go to 7:59, or does it take a second to get there? If it takes a second to get there, then 0 means 0; if it immediately changes, then 0 means "less than 1 second."
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 09, 2018, 08:05pm
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Tick Tick Tick

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
That's why there are cases ... where the clock shows 0:00.0 but the horn ... haven't gone off ...
Definitely with the old fashioned tick tick tick mechanical scoreboards. I had it happen to me more than once. First question we always asked the table, "Was the automatic horn on?". If off, they turn it on and the horn sounds. Period over. If on, we play a little more basketball.
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  #89 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 10, 2018, 02:07am
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
On clocks that don't have tenths, it's pretty easy to tell if it is one that goes to zero at zero or at .999 seconds. When you first flip the clock on, does it immediately go to 7:59, or does it take a second to get there? If it takes a second to get there, then 0 means 0; if it immediately changes, then 0 means "less than 1 second."
Right. And, that's why when .3 is displayed on the clock, then somewhere between .3 and .39 "remains on the clock".
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 10, 2018, 07:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
Right. And, that's why when .3 is displayed on the clock, then somewhere between .3 and .39 "remains on the clock".
.3 - .39 remains in the game, but .3 "remains on the clock" as it is meant in the rules.
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