The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #46 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 04:35pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 12,590
The rule (5-2 Art 5) says "When play is resumed with a throw-in or free throw and three-tenths (.3) of a second or less remains on the clock, a player may not gain control of the ball and try for a field goal. In this situation only a tap could score."

There is no mention of what the time may actually be. Let's quit trying to twist this, the officials kicked a rule, pure and simple. Same thing happened in a play-off game in Northern Virginia 2-3 seasons ago.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 04:41pm
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by justacoach View Post
Not unless they have approved a specific variance from FED rules.

Rule 5, Section 4 Article 2

"The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee does not recognize protests. "
That would be why I asked the question...I know Washington State has that variance. I am wondering if WV does???
Reply With Quote
  #48 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 04:50pm
Statistician/Ref Hybrid
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
If you're in a 0.3 situation and there is a timeout, hopefully as a crew you have a brief discussion to be on the same page. Would anyone consider communicating with coaches during this timeout about the rule? I wouldn't, in the camp of they should know the rule, but I'm curious to see what others might think.
I agree with the sentiment of others posting before me: the crew should get together to be sure everyone knows the rule and what scenarios could happen. But, I wouldn't tell the coaches.
__________________
Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." – Dalai Lama

The center of attention as the lead & trail. – me
Games officiated - Basketball: 305, Softball: 50.
Reply With Quote
  #49 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 05:28pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
Who’s Trent Tucker? And Why Is There A Rule Named After Him? ...

From an upcoming article I'm writing for a magazine. It's been twenty-eight years and I'm sure that some Forum young'uns don't know the background of the rule.

The Trent Tucker Rule disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990 at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation: an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the Knicks player throwing the ball in, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker, who was the only player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock was not started until Tucker's shot was already in midair. Afterward, everyone said a player could not catch, plant, spin, and release a shot so quickly. The NBA determined that you cannot catch and shoot in three-tenths of a second or under. All you can do is throw it at the rim and have someone tip it in.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Mar 08, 2018 at 07:24pm.
Reply With Quote
  #50 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 05:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post

Taking a closed book test is not going to solve that problem if you ask questions about the diameter of the division line instead of questions that actually could be faced in a game.

Peace
I'm scrambling for my books to see what the diameter of a division line should be!
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #51 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 05:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
I don't think so. The wording, as quoted by you, is "three-tenths (.3) of a second or less remaining on the clock." While the actual time might be more than 0.3 (0.39), the rule states 0.3 or less remaining on the clock. That means whatever the clock is displaying, not the tiny difference between what it displays and the actual time.

Haha, this is a funny discussion over such a minute difference. But I think the overall point is this: for this rule, all that matters is what is displayed, not what amount of time *might* remain.
The question then is what is "the clock"? What if the clock at the table shows 100ths while the clock on the wall doesn't? What if one clock on the wall shows it and another doesn't?
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #52 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 06:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,048
This could’ve been avoided with a good pregame.
Reply With Quote
  #53 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 06:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Slow down partner. Not necessarily. The game might not be over. What else can happen in 0.3 seconds other than a tip? How about a catch and a ...
The NCAAW rule is better here -- as soon as the ball is caught, the game is over.
Reply With Quote
  #54 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:14pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
Fill In The Blank ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The NCAAW rule is better here -- as soon as the ball is caught, the game is over.
You didn't answer the fill in the blank question (when I certainly know that you can). Is this one of those fisherman metaphor things?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Mar 08, 2018 at 07:28pm.
Reply With Quote
  #55 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:22pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I’m with you there. But if the closed book test contains questions about rules that legitimately matter (i.e. we can all dispense with multiple foul scenarios), we might move the needle a little.
Yeah, if they ask the right questions. And you are not going to be able to ask all the possibilities, but testing is one of the biggest jokes in officiating. We act like if they test you that means you know the rules. You only know the questions they ask you. If they never ask you about what can happen on .3, then does that mean you will not ever learn the rule? Rules knowledge comes with experience, study and talking with several officials over time. And sometimes you learn the rule when you totally screw it up.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #56 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:22pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
It's Not That Simple ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
We specifically talked about a catch and a shot. Any other hypothetical situation is irrelevant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
... that if they catch and shoot a 3 that we will wave it off and the game is over.
The statement was made that if there is a catch that the game is over.

Sounds pretty simple. It's not that simple. The game might not be over under at least one hypothetical, but very possible (what often happens to players in the act of shooting), circumstance. I wouldn't nod to the table, and run out of the gym, if something else happened in addition to the catch and shoot.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 10, 2018 at 07:01am.
Reply With Quote
  #57 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:25pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
Oh, That Trent Tucker ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The Trent Tucker Rule disallows any regular shot to be taken on the court if the ball is put into play with three-tenths of a second or less left in the period. The rule was born out of a game between the New York Knicks and the Chicago Bulls on January 15, 1990 at Madison Square Garden. The game was tied at 106 with one-tenth of a second left in regulation and the Knicks in possession. During a timeout called by the Knicks, both teams prepared for what was seen as the only possible way the Knicks could win in regulation: an alley-oop tapin by Patrick Ewing from an out of bounds pass. When play resumed, the Knicks player throwing the ball in, Mark Jackson, saw the alley-oop play get broken up. He proceeded to throw the ball inbounds to Trent Tucker, who was the only player open. Tucker then turned around and hit a three-point jump shot before the buzzer, giving the Knicks the win, 109–106. Replays showed that the clock was not started until Tucker's shot was already in midair. Afterward, everyone said a player could not catch, plant, spin, and release a shot so quickly. The NBA determined that you cannot catch and shoot in three-tenths of a second or under. All you can do is throw it at the rim and have someone tip it in.
As a thirty-plus year retired science teacher, I know the value of context in understanding, and remember things.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #58 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:28pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 27,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I'm scrambling for my books to see what the diameter of a division line should be!
If you take a closed book test, you might not know the answer.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #59 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:35pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,024
Tricky, Tricky, Tricky ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I'm scrambling for my books to see what the diameter of a division line should be!
Not fair. Trick question.

The division line isn't a circle and doesn't have a diameter, it has a length, and a width.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #60 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 08, 2018, 07:38pm
CJP CJP is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
The statement was made that if there is a catch and that the game is over.

Sounds pretty simple. It's not that simple. The game might not be over under at least one hypothetical, but very possible (what often happens to players in the act of shooting), circumstance. I wouldn't nod to the table, and run out of the gym, if something else happened in addition to the catch and shoot.
Yeah well we only had a short amount of time for a brief discussion. Having just a catch was not part of our discussion. I didn't think it was necessary to have a "pre-game" discussion during the time-out. Forgive me if I didn't mention the other hypothetical situations but I thought we covered the most important one.

Last edited by CJP; Thu Mar 08, 2018 at 07:42pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1.9 Sec left in Playoff game TO Granted with none left leads to Coach Ejection (Video mac91 Basketball 125 Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:45pm
team left court end of 1st half BEAREF Basketball 6 Wed Jan 07, 2015 08:46pm
Team shoots lights out - literally Mark Padgett Basketball 6 Wed Dec 15, 2010 05:25pm
NCAA Tournament Officials Assigned to Work Multiple Games Involving Same Team aces88 Basketball 4 Fri Mar 25, 2005 03:11pm
Team Shoots on Wrong Basket djskinn Basketball 10 Tue Feb 17, 2004 02:18pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1