The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 31, 2018, 06:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 428
EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
a. Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight.

We know if a foul occurs while a try is in flight, the ball becomes dead when the try ends - successful/unsuccessful. (no airborne shooter involved) What I believe the rule above is saying (plus 6.7.4) is: if an airborne shooter is involved, regardless of the outcome of the try, if the shooter is still airborne, the ball does not become dead until the airborne shooter returns to the floor. Otherwise, if the ball were dead based on the result of the try, subsequent contact by or against the still airborne shooter would have to be ignored unless ruled intentional or flagrant.
__________________
The rule book is pretty much black and white; but it needs to be read, reviewed and revised.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 31, 2018, 07:55pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,201
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
So uncommon that....oh, just read my tagline.
Go ahead and make that call all you like. As a reward, there will be all the 7th grade games you can possibly work.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2018, 12:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
a. Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight.

We know if a foul occurs while a try is in flight, the ball becomes dead when the try ends - successful/unsuccessful. (no airborne shooter involved) What I believe the rule above is saying (plus 6.7.4) is: if an airborne shooter is involved, regardless of the outcome of the try, if the shooter is still airborne, the ball does not become dead until the airborne shooter returns to the floor. Otherwise, if the ball were dead based on the result of the try, subsequent contact by or against the still airborne shooter would have to be ignored unless ruled intentional or flagrant.
Incorrect. The ball is dead when the try ends, even if the shooter is still airborne. However, a foul on/by an airborne shooter is by rule deemed to be personal, even if the ball is dead.

Rule 4-19
Quote:
ART. 1 . . . A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead. NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is incidental unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2018, 01:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern NJ
Posts: 103
I wouldn't say "incorrect", since he provided a direct quote from the Rule Book. It's just another inconsistency in the rules. One could also say that Rule 4-19-1 is "Incorrect" due to the language quoted above from Rule 6-7 Exception a. The NFHS could (and should) rewrite one of those rules to agree with the other. And no, I won't hold my breath!
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2018, 04:41am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I wouldn't say "incorrect", since he provided a direct quote from the Rule Book. It's just another inconsistency in the rules. One could also say that Rule 4-19-1 is "Incorrect" due to the language quoted above from Rule 6-7 Exception a. The NFHS could (and should) rewrite one of those rules to agree with the other. And no, I won't hold my breath!
Hmmm..you may be right there. The other rules are unambiguous in that the ball can be already dead with an airborne shooter. Given that, I'd chalk his reading of that exception up to bad grammar in the exception. I'm trying to figure out what they really meant by that and am a bit stumped.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2018, 07:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckS View Post
I wouldn't say "incorrect", since he provided a direct quote from the Rule Book. It's just another inconsistency in the rules. One could also say that Rule 4-19-1 is "Incorrect" due to the language quoted above from Rule 6-7 Exception a. The NFHS could (and should) rewrite one of those rules to agree with the other. And no, I won't hold my breath!

Agree.
Also, the ruling in the case book (6.7.4) supports the exception in the rule book: “A1’s player control foul causes the ball to become dead immediately . . . Even if the ball had gone through the basket before the foul.”
__________________
The rule book is pretty much black and white; but it needs to be read, reviewed and revised.

Last edited by billyu2; Thu Feb 01, 2018 at 07:49am.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 01, 2018, 10:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Mentor, Ohio
Posts: 428
Rule 4-19
Quote:
ART. 1 . . . A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead. NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is incidental unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

Camron, I believe this rule is valid and applies in the situation where a defender commits basket interference first (and I suppose goal tending as well) after which there is contact by or on an airborne shooter. The violation causes the ball to become dead but; there can still be a personal foul by or on the shooter. So 4.19.6 Situation A would be the supporting case play.
I think this would solve the contradiction between this rule and 6-7 Exception.
Your thoughts?
__________________
The rule book is pretty much black and white; but it needs to be read, reviewed and revised.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2018, 09:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 27
The second play is a false multiple foul and each carries it's own penalty.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 05, 2018, 02:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,156
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
Rule 4-19
Quote:
ART. 1 . . . A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements. A personal foul also includes contact by or on an airborne shooter when the ball is dead. NOTE: Contact after the ball has become dead is incidental unless it is ruled intentional or flagrant or is committed by or on an airborne shooter.

Camron, I believe this rule is valid and applies in the situation where a defender commits basket interference first (and I suppose goal tending as well) after which there is contact by or on an airborne shooter. The violation causes the ball to become dead but; there can still be a personal foul by or on the shooter. So 4.19.6 Situation A would be the supporting case play.
I think this would solve the contradiction between this rule and 6-7 Exception.
Your thoughts?
I believe you may have found the answer.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
basketball, penalty enforcement

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Free Throws Zoochy Basketball 36 Tue Oct 05, 2010 04:44pm
Most free throws? Rock Chalk Basketball 31 Sat Mar 10, 2007 09:59am
Free throws or not? Johnny Ringo Basketball 7 Mon Feb 12, 2007 01:18am
Free throws redcat459@aol.com Basketball 6 Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:37pm
Set up on free throws.... barknoll Basketball 6 Fri Jan 18, 2002 12:10pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:23pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1