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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 11:38am
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Free Throws

Situation from mens league. A1 gets fouled (non-shooting). His hand gets jamed due to the foul. Frustrated from the 'injury', he kicks the ball. We call a 'T' on A1. While I am reporting the fouls to table and determining if team is in the bonus, partner is having Team B shoot the 'T'. Well, Team A is in the bonus, thus A1 needs to shoot a 1 and 1. I know proceedure is to have A1 shoot the 1and1, then member from team B shoot the 'T', then mid court throw-in for Team B opposite the table.

If this was a NFHS game, would we disguard the Free Throws by Team B (made or missed), and follow the correct proceedure? Or allow the Free throws by Team B, have A1 shoot the free throws and have team B take the ball OOB?

Yes, I was disappointed that partner started shooting, without confering with me. No, I did not talk to him after the game about this situation. Not a battle for me to choose at this time.
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 11:54am
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8.7 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1ís foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1. RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 01:12pm
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Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
8.7 SITUATION B: B1 fouls A1 just as the first quarter ends and then A1 retaliates and intentionally contacts B1. A1ís foul is a technical foul as it occurred during a dead ball. Team A is in the bonus. The officials by mistake administer the penalty for the technical foul before the free throw(s) by A1. RULING: The penalties should have been administered in the order in which the fouls occurred. However, since all merited free throws were attempted it does not constitute a correctable error situation. The second quarter will begin with an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-19-5c)
The second quarter begins with the AP throw-in, because that's how it would normally start, since the T occurred as part of the previous quarter. But in the original situation, it's not the end of the quarter, so how do we resume play? Do we line up and allow rebounding after the 1-and-1, since the technical free throws have already been shot and we can't correct it? Or do we clear the lane and give Team B the ball at the division line because that's what "should have happened"?
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 01:38pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
The second quarter begins with the AP throw-in, because that's how it would normally start, since the T occurred as part of the previous quarter. But in the original situation, it's not the end of the quarter, so how do we resume play? Do we line up and allow rebounding after the 1-and-1, since the technical free throws have already been shot and we can't correct it? Or do we clear the lane and give Team B the ball at the division line because that's what "should have happened"?
In HS I believe we shoot 1 & 1 w/nobody in marked lane spaces & give Team B the ball at the division line since thats part of the penalty for Ts.

Same sitch but in NCAA-M, do we shoot the T then the 1 & 1 with everybody lined up & play on?
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 01:47pm
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Thanks BNR!
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 01:50pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoochy View Post
Situation from mens league. A1 gets fouled (non-shooting). His hand gets jamed due to the foul. Frustrated from the 'injury', he kicks the ball. We call a 'T' on A1. While I am reporting the fouls to table and determining if team is in the bonus, partner is having Team B shoot the 'T'. Well, Team A is in the bonus, thus A1 needs to shoot a 1 and 1. I know proceedure is to have A1 shoot the 1and1, then member from team B shoot the 'T', then mid court throw-in for Team B opposite the table.

If this was a NFHS game ...
Meaning you were using NCAA-M rules? In that case, what you wrote in RED is incorrect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
... But in the original situation, it's not the end of the quarter, so how do we resume play? Do we line up and allow rebounding after the 1-and-1, since the technical free throws have already been shot and we can't correct it? Or do we clear the lane and give Team B the ball at the division line because that's what "should have happened"?
Possession changed when B1 got the ball at his disposal for the technical free throw so you can't just line 'em for the 1-and-1 and go. Team B is entitled to a throw-in from the division line.

Tref For NCAA-M the correct procedure is to shoot the T then line up for the 1-and-1 so it would not have been a correctable error until Team A had the ball at its disposal for the subsequent throw-in.
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 05:03pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Meaning you were using NCAA-M rules? In that case, what you wrote in RED is incorrect.



Possession changed when B1 got the ball at his disposal for the technical free throw so you can't just line 'em for the 1-and-1 and go. Team B is entitled to a throw-in from the division line.

Tref For NCAA-M the correct procedure is to shoot the T then line up for the 1-and-1 so it would not have been a correctable error until Team A had the ball at its disposal for the subsequent throw-in.
so let me try a newbie recap; (picture will be provided by Billymac) Count B's basket(s) if made, then still allow A's 1 & 1 (with the lane cleared ) then division line throw in for B and play on ?
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 05:26pm
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Originally Posted by Upward ref View Post
Picture will be provided by BillyMac.
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 06:41pm
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Old Fri Oct 01, 2010, 07:38pm
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[QUOTE=BadNewsRef;694585]Meaning you were using NCAA-M rules? In that case, what you wrote in RED is incorrect. QUOTE]
We were not using NCAA-M rules. We were using NFHS rules. But when you work men's leagues you bend the rules to get the job done.
My concern was "If this was a high school game?"
We shot the 'T', we shot the 1 and 1 (no one lined up), then gave the ball to Team B because the 'T' was the last foul.
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Old Sat Oct 02, 2010, 12:50am
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[quote=Zoochy;694609]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
We shot the 'T', we shot the 1 and 1 (no one lined up), then gave the ball to Team B because the 'T' was the last foul.
Which is exactly what you should have done.
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Old Sat Oct 02, 2010, 04:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Meaning you were using NCAA-M rules? In that case, what you wrote in RED is incorrect.



Possession changed when B1 got the ball at his disposal for the technical free throw so you can't just line 'em for the 1-and-1 and go. Team B is entitled to a throw-in from the division line.

Tref For NCAA-M the correct procedure is to shoot the T then line up for the 1-and-1 so it would not have been a correctable error until Team A had the ball at its disposal for the subsequent throw-in.
So the player who got fouled (A1) needs to shoot the one and one, is also the player who got the T, in NCAA-M we would shoot the T, then line the players up for A1's one and one?

thanks for the clarification!
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Old Sun Oct 03, 2010, 10:29am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Possession changed when B1 got the ball at his disposal for the technical free throw so you can't just line 'em for the 1-and-1 and go. Team B is entitled to a throw-in from the division line.
Sounds like you're referring to the rules regarding correctable errors. This situation is not a correctable error, however.

So while I agree that Team B "should" get a throw-in as part of the penalty for the T, is there a rule basis for shooting the 1-and-1 with the lane cleared?
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Old Sun Oct 03, 2010, 11:53am
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Agree, Not One Of The Five Correctable Errors ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Sounds like you're referring to the rules regarding correctable errors. This situation is not a correctable error.
Officials may correct an error if a rule is inadvertently set aside and results in:
a. Failure to award a merited free throw.
b. Awarding an unmerited free throw.
c. Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
d. Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
e. Erroneously counting or canceling a score.
If an error is corrected, play shall be resumed from the point of interruption to rectify the error, unless it involves awarding a merited free throw(s) and there has been no change of team possession since the error was made, in which case play shall resume as after any free-throw attempt(s).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
So while I agree that Team B "should" get a throw-in as part of the penalty for the T, is there a rule basis for shooting the 1-and-1 with the lane cleared?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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Old Sun Oct 03, 2010, 12:16pm
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Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
Sounds like you're referring to the rules regarding correctable errors. This situation is not a correctable error, however.

So while I agree that Team B "should" get a throw-in as part of the penalty for the T, is there a rule basis for shooting the 1-and-1 with the lane cleared?
Yes, since part of the T's penalty has not yet been applied, the ball will be dead at the conclusion of the last FT.

And, this actually is a correctable error. It is the failure to award merited FTs. The T FT's were awarded having skipped the 1+1 FTs....one official continued on with the game having not awarded the FTs...no different than if a throwin had occurred before recognizing that the 1+1 was not administered. It doesn't matter that the partner or the table knew there should have been a 1+1, it is about what was administered.
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