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curious_coach Tue Jan 30, 2018 09:31pm

how many free throws
 
Under NFHS rules

1) after offensive player A1 has released their shot, defender B2 (away from the shooter) is called for excessive pushing while boxing out. How many free throws are awarded? does it matter if A1's shot attempt is good or not? does it matter if this is team B's 4th foul? 7th foul? 10th foul?

2) what if on the same play defender B1 fouls the shooter - so two fouls on the play? Does team A get free throws for both fouls?

DrPete Tue Jan 30, 2018 09:46pm

Once the shot is clearly released, there is no more player control or team control (ie no offensive players). Fouls are penalized like any other common foul (ball out of bounds or free throws depending on the total team foul count for the half).
Whether the shot attempt by A1 goes in (it would count) or not has no bearing on the number of free throws.
As far as calling two separate fouls on the same team..... once one foul is called, then you have a dead ball situation, so the second foul would have to be intentional or flagrant to be considered. Usually one foul would suffice in this type of situation.

Camron Rust Wed Jan 31, 2018 03:14am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPete (Post 1015969)
Once the shot is clearly released, there is no more player control or team control (ie no offensive players). Fouls are penalized like any other common foul (ball out of bounds or free throws depending on the total team foul count for the half).
Whether the shot attempt by A1 goes in (it would count) or not has no bearing on the number of free throws.
As far as calling two separate fouls on the same team..... once one foul is called, then you have a dead ball situation, so the second foul would have to be intentional or flagrant to be considered. Usually one foul would suffice in this type of situation.

Actually, you don't. The ball remains live until the try ends, even if a foul has been called. So, it is quite possible to have a foul involving the shooter and another foul elsewhere without either being intentional or flagrant. It may be uncommon, but it is certainly possible.

DrPete Wed Jan 31, 2018 06:47am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1015974)
Actually, you don't. The ball remains live until the try ends, even if a foul has been called. So, it is quite possible to have a foul involving the shooter and another foul elsewhere without either being intentional or flagrant. It may be uncommon, but it is certainly possible.

Camron is correct, the ball remains live while the try is in flight, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor. It still would be uncommon to have two fouls like described in the original post.

griblets Wed Jan 31, 2018 08:51am

Had this situation last night. A1 shoots, while the ball is in flight, B2 holds (wraps A2 with both arms). A awarded 3 points for successful 3-point try and throw-in nearest spot to the foul. Had A been in bonus, A2 would have shot bonus free throws.

Scrapper1 Wed Jan 31, 2018 09:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPete (Post 1015975)
Camron is correct, the ball remains live while the try is in flight, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor. It still would be uncommon to have two fouls like described in the original post.

I hate to pile on, but the airborne shooter returning to the floor doesn't have anything to do with whether the ball is live or dead.

DrPete Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1015979)
I hate to pile on, but the airborne shooter returning to the floor doesn't have anything to do with whether the ball is live or dead.

Help me understand this:

Under rule 6.7 (live ball and dead ball)

EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
a. Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight.

and ART. 7 says:
The ball becomes dead, or remains dead, when:
A foul, other than player-control or team-control, occurs (see exceptions a, b and c below).

so cal lurker Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:29am

I believe in the NBA a defensive foul against a player other than the shooter has a one shot penalty if the shot is successful. So those who learn the rules from TV may create confusion here.

Scrapper1 Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPete (Post 1015984)
Help me understand this:

Under rule 6.7 (live ball and dead ball)

EXCEPTION: The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor, when:
a. Article 5, 6, or 7 occurs while a try or tap for a field goal is in flight.

That's a great question, Pete. I can't think of a time when the ball becomes dead simply because the airborne shooter returns to the floor. If the airborne shooter returns to the floor BEFORE the try has ended, the ball remains live (because we're going to count the basket if it goes in). If the airborne shooter returns to the floor AFTER the try has ended, then the ball is already dead because it became dead when the try ended (whether it was successful or not).

Anybody want to help Pete and me on this one?

bucky Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPete (Post 1015975)
Camron is correct, the ball remains live while the try is in flight, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor. It still would be uncommon to have two fouls like described in the original post.

So uncommon that....oh, just read my tagline.

HokiePaul Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1015989)
If the airborne shooter returns to the floor AFTER the try has ended, then the ball is already dead because it became dead when the try ended (whether it was successful or not).

Something about this statement doesn't seem right - maybe I'm missing some context here.

The try could end before the shooter returns to the floor (one example I can think of would be a shot that is immediately blocked and certain to be unsuccessful).

Camron Rust Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by HokiePaul (Post 1015992)
Something about this statement doesn't seem right - maybe I'm missing some context here.

The try could end before the shooter returns to the floor (one example I can think of would be a shot that is immediately blocked and certain to be unsuccessful).

True, but the ball doesn't become dead in such a play either when the try ends or the shooter lands. The ball is still in play...unless it is blocked OOB. But that is what makes it dead, not the shooter landing.

billyu2 Wed Jan 31, 2018 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 1015989)
That's a great question, Pete. I can't think of a time when the ball becomes dead simply because the airborne shooter returns to the floor. If the airborne shooter returns to the floor BEFORE the try has ended, the ball remains live (because we're going to count the basket if it goes in). If the airborne shooter returns to the floor AFTER the try has ended, then the ball is already dead because it became dead when the try ended (whether it was successful or not).

Anybody want to help Pete and me on this one?

CB 6.7.4 Ruling may help. Can't post it. On my way out.

SNIPERBBB Wed Jan 31, 2018 01:16pm

There is a difference between the act of shooting ends and when the try ends.

Scrapper1 Wed Jan 31, 2018 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by billyu2 (Post 1015997)
CB 6.7.4 Ruling may help. Can't post it. On my way out.

Again, in that case play, the ball does not become dead because the shooter has returned to the floor. The ball is dead because of the player control foul. The ball is dead before the airborne shooter returns to the floor.


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