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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 12:55pm
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Jerseys during Warm-ups

Had something last night I've never seen before. Are players required to wear their jersey during warm-ups? I didn't find anything that requires it. We had a player that went through his full warm-up, up to about 1:00 before tip off, in just his compression undershirt. While it seemed wrong and didn't pass the common-sense test, I didn't have definite knowledge, so let it go, and then couldn't find anything in the book that said they had to have it at that time. Has anyone ever seen that?

Nearest I could find was that the game jersey shall be tucked in to the game shorts, which would obviously require one to be wearing a game jersey. But I believe this is only for players (i.e., after the game has begun.)

In hindsight, maybe I'd pull the old 2-3, go put it on and continue the warm-up.
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 01:02pm
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Question

Was his number listed in the scorebook? Oh wait, you couldn't check that because you didn't know what his number was.
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 01:42pm
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OK, I'm not a BB ref, but how is this really any different than the player that has a warm up on over his jersey? Or who may not have a jersey on under that warm up because you can't tell what is under?
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 02:32pm
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
OK, I'm not a BB ref, but how is this really any different than the player that has a warm up on over his jersey? Or who may not have a jersey on under that warm up because you can't tell what is under?
And that's one of my mental arguments for letting it go. I just don't want that to be a precedent that gets set either.
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 02:48pm
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Also, what if the compression shirt was not of legal color based on it being an undershirt during normal game play? For example, the school colors are orange and black yet the shirt, let's go with short-sleeved, was the color purple. How about it they were wearing jeans? Or headphones?
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 02:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Also, what if the compression shirt was not of legal color based on it being an undershirt during normal game play? For example, the school colors are orange and black yet the shirt, let's go with short-sleeved, was the color purple. How about it they were wearing jeans? Or headphones?
What does the rule book say about jeans or headphones?
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 03:09pm
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Also, what if the compression shirt was not of legal color based on it being an undershirt during normal game play?
Who cares what color the compression shirt is during warm-ups (besides maybe just telling the player that it needs to be legal if s/he plays).

For this, and for the OP -- don't be a plumber (with apologies to Freddy(?))
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 09:29pm
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Interesting ...

So a player can be charged with a technical foul for removing the jersey within the visual confines of the playing area, but there's no penalty for not wearing a jersey between the officials jurisdiction beginning and the beginning of the game? How about a player whom the official identifies as wearing an illegal undershirt, removing the jersey within the visual confines of the playing area to remove the illegal undershirt, and then putting his jersey back on before the game begins?
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Old Fri Jan 19, 2018, 09:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
So a player can be charged with a technical foul for removing the jersey within the visual confines of the playing area, but there's no penalty for not wearing a jersey between the officials jurisdiction beginning and the beginning of the game? How about a player whom the official identifies as wearing an illegal undershirt, removing the jersey within the visual confines of the playing area to remove the illegal undershirt, and then putting his jersey back on before the game begins?
Whenever I see illegal gear, next to skin, that requires removal, I tell the player to go to the locker room. I usually add a quick blurb about it being necessary to avoid a T or something along those lines.
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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 12:36pm
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"Taking Off The Jersey Rule" ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Whenever I see illegal gear, next to skin, that requires removal, I tell the player to go to the locker room. I usually add a quick blurb about it being necessary to avoid a T or something along those lines.
Good preventative officiating.

I, on the other hand, never tell a player that they have to remove anything, jewelry, illegal undershirt, etc. Per instructions by an attorney at a clinic many years ago (before the "taking off the jersey rule"), I just tell them that they can't play with illegal equipment, and leave it to the player, coach, and possibly, parent, to figure it out.

"Take out the earrings", stated by an official can have unintended (albeit very, very rare) health consequences that I just don't want to deal with.

Obviously, taking out earrings and taking off a jersey aren't (health wise) the same thing.

If I recall correctly, the "taking off the jersey rule" was to prevent a player who had just fouled out from showing resentment, or disgust, to the call by taking off the jersey on the way to the bench. I'll charge a technical foul in a New York minute every time in that situation.

Taking off a jersey to remove an illegal undershirt? Based on purpose and intent, I'm looking the other way.

I might mention to the player to go to the locker room if I have a direct conversation with them, but a player who decides to remove a jersey to remove an illegal undershirt on his own volition, I'm looking the other way. If the opposing coach questions my "call", I'm going with intent and purpose and the history of the rule.

Kicking the can down the road creating a problem for the next official in the same situation? Guilty as charged.

Let the stoning begin.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 20, 2018 at 02:16pm.
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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 02:13pm
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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post

If I recall correctly,
You don't.

SITUATION 4: During the pregame warm-up, the 12 members of Team A are wearing warm-up tops, but not their team jerseys. Approximately one minute prior to the opening jump ball, the 12 Team A members go to the team bench, remove the warm-up tops and put on the team jerseys. RULING: One technical foul is charged to Team A, and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach. COMMENT: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)[
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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:42am
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Naked And Afraid ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jerkins View Post
SITUATION 4: During the pregame warm-up, the 12 members of Team A are wearing warm-up tops, but not their team jerseys. Approximately one minute prior to the opening jump ball, the 12 Team A members go to the team bench, remove the warm-up tops and put on the team jerseys. RULING: One technical foul is charged to Team A, and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach. COMMENT: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)[
Great citations.

I wonder if they apply to frezer11's original post of putting jerseys on before a game, since the rule states that players can't remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt (nothing about putting jerseys on, and nothing was removed) within the visual confines of the playing area.

In fact Situation 4 doesn't exactly match the rule because the players are taking off warmups within the visual confines of the playing area, while the rule states that players can't remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt (nothing about removing warmups) within the visual confines of the playing area.

I wonder why an indirect technical foul isn't charged to the head coach in Situation 5, assuming the player directed to leave the game has already been substituted for and is now bench personnel.

Of course, Felix Unger told us what happens when we assume.
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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:19am
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Jerseys during Warm-ups

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Kicking the can down the road creating a problem for the next official in the same situation? Guilty as charged.

It is this exact attitude that caused the NFHS to finally call out officials like you this year in the new book, letting you know that you are really part of the problem.



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Last edited by Big_Blue_Wannabe; Sun Jan 21, 2018 at 12:35pm.
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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:31am
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Double Jeopardy ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
... "taking off the jersey rule" was to prevent a player who had just fouled out from showing resentment, or disgust, to the call by taking off the jersey on the way to the bench. I'll charge a technical foul in a New York minute every time in that situation. Taking off a jersey to remove an illegal undershirt? Based on purpose and intent, I'm looking the other way. I might mention to the player to go to the locker room if I have a direct conversation with them, but a player who decides to remove a jersey to remove an illegal undershirt on his own volition, I'm looking the other way. If the opposing coach questions my "call", I'm going with intent and purpose and the history of the rule. Kicking the can down the road creating a problem for the next official in the same situation? Guilty as charged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Blue_Wannabe View Post
It is this exact attitude that caused the NFHS to finally call out officials like you Rus year in the new book, letting you know that you are really part of the problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
The statement, 'I am not the uniform police' is correct. However, officials are hired to enforce the rules of the game. Uniform, equipment, and apparel are all included in the rules book and must be enforced... Consistency among the officials in enforcement of these areas will provide for a unified statement to coaches. When some officials choose not to enforce the rules, they are only hurting the profession and setting up the next crew for criticism from the coaches, when, in fact, the officials who did not enforce the rules are the ones who deserve the criticism. (NFHS 2017-19 Basketball Officials Manual Point of Emphasis, p.4.).
Oddly, I agree with Big_Blue_Wannabe.

But in this very specific circumstance (telling a player that they can't play with an illegal undershirt, and then charging them with a technical foul when they go to the bench, on their own volition, and remove it) is not the way that I want to start my game, with both an irritated player, and an irritated coach ("But you told him that he couldn't play with that undershirt."), nor would almost all of my 300-plus local colleagues, some (sadly, more than just a few) that wouldn't even address the illegal undershirt, making me very confident that I won't be setting up the next crew for criticism from the coaches.

When in Rome ...
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Jan 21, 2018 at 12:10pm.
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