Jerseys during Warm-ups

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

But in this very specific circumstance (telling a player that they can't play with an illegal undershirt, and then charging them with a technical foul when they go to the bench, on their own volition, and remove it) is not the way that I want to start my game,

So tell the player "if you want to play, you need to leave the gym and take off the undershirt" -- or tell that to the coach and have him/her tell the player.

Now if they stay and do it, it's no them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Whenever I see illegal gear ... that requires removal, I tell the player to go to the locker room.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So tell the player "if you want to play, you need to leave the gym and take off the undershirt"

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good preventative officiating.

Great advice from bucky and bob jenkins.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When in Rome ...

The "Taking Off The Jersey Rule" has probably been around for a decade. Here in my little corner of Connecticut, I've never seen it enforced on any level for anything other than a player who had just fouled out showing resentment, or disgust, to the call by taking off the jersey on the way to the bench.

I wonder how many Forum members enforce every "Fashion Police" rule? Or how many officials, in general, fully understand, and enforce, every "Fashion Police" rule? Sad to say, we don't do a great job in my local area. Better enforcement of the undershirt rule (a very simple rule to understand, not many choices for legal colors) would lead to fewer players having to change (although, to flip it, no enforcement of the rule would lead to no players having to change), leading to less chance of players trying to change in the bench area.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

SITUATION 4: During the pregame warm-up, the 12 members of Team A are wearing warm-up tops, but not their team jerseys. Approximately one minute prior to the opening jump ball, the 12 Team A members go to the team bench, remove the warm-up tops and put on the team jerseys. RULING: One technical foul is charged to Team A, and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach. COMMENT: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

I'd still like to some discussion about this interpretation, especially involving frezer11's original post.

Originally Posted by frezer11

... player that went through his full warm-up, up to about 1:00 before tip off, in just his compression undershirt.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I wonder if they apply to frezer11's original post of putting jerseys on before a game, since the rule states that players can't remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt (nothing about putting jerseys on, and nothing was removed) within the visual confines of the playing area. In fact Situation 4 doesn't exactly match the rule because the players are taking off warmups within the visual confines of the playing area, while the rule states that players can't remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt (nothing about removing warmups) within the visual confines of the playing area.

Players legally remove warmups at the bench area all the time (albeit, usually with a jersey underneath). So is it illegal for them to put on a jersey, as well as remove a jersey, at the bench area?

Is it the intent of the NFHS that players not show any underwear (undershirt), or skin, within the visual confines of the playing area, before, or during the game (under the jurisdiction of the officials)?

Is it that simple? I sure hope so.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You don't.

SITUATION 4: During the pregame warm-up, the 12 members of Team A are wearing warm-up tops, but not their team jerseys. Approximately one minute prior to the opening jump ball, the 12 Team A members go to the team bench, remove the warm-up tops and put on the team jerseys. RULING: One technical foul is charged to Team A, and it is also charged indirectly to the head coach. COMMENT: In a situation where similar multiple infractions occur at the same time, it is not the intent of the rules to penalize each individual infraction as a separate technical foul. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)[

I'm assuming these citations are from a previous year's case book? I don't see them in the current book, and quoted rules citations are inaccurate. (Rule 3 Section 4 has 5 articles, not 15). What year's book are you referencing, or is this an interpretation from somewhere else?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I'm assuming these citations are from a previous year's case book? I don't see them in the current book, and quoted rules citations are inaccurate. What year's book are you referencing, or is this an interpretation from somewhere else?

2005-06 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post546075

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I'm assuming these citations are from a previous year's case book? I don't see them in the current book, and quoted rules citations are inaccurate. (Rule 3 Section 4 has 5 articles, not 15). What year's book are you referencing, or is this an interpretation from somewhere else?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2005-06 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post546075

Got ya, thank you.

I don't know if this applies to the original scenario or not. What it does show is that if you pull off any kind of warm up, you must have the jersey underneath. As far as adding the jersey without taking anything off? It appears that the rule, cases, and interpretation are centered around removing items in the visual confines, not so much about adding them.

For the record, I think the intent of that interpretation is that teams must warm up in the game jersey, and will from here on out interpret it as such. I don't mean to be overly nit-picky, I just don't see the clear connection in the rules to this scenario.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I think the intent of that interpretation is that teams must warm up in the game jersey, and will from here on out interpret it as such.

Even if they warm up in their warmups and go into the locker room to change into their jerseys before the game starts?

I believe that this (below) is the intent:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is it the intent of the NFHS that players not show any underwear (undershirt), or skin, within the visual confines of the playing area, before, or during the game (under the jurisdiction of the officials)?

But I gave up trying to understand some NFHS rule and interpretation (see backcourt simultaneous last to touch, first to touch) oddities a long time ago.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by frezer11

What it does show is that if you pull off any kind of warm up, you must have the jersey underneath.

I do not see where it shows that.

Is it the intent of the NFHS that players not show any underwear (undershirt), or skin, within the visual confines of the playing area, before, or during the game (under the jurisdiction of the officials)?

I feel it is skin.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I don't know if this applies to the original scenario or not. What it does show is that if you pull off any kind of warm up, you must have the jersey underneath. As far as adding the jersey without taking anything off? It appears that the rule, cases, and interpretation are centered around removing items in the visual confines, not so much about adding them.

I think the case play is assuming that the players had on ONLY the warmup tops, and not a t-shirt or something underneath.

IIRC (and my memory might be as faulty as Billy's), this all started with VB where the girls would (and still usually do) wear warmup tops, and then change into the jerseys later. They would do this at the bench, showing the sports-bras to all the HS boys.

So, imo, if the player is wearing the proper undershirt and then adds a jersey, that seems fine to me.

Once the jersey is on, though, it stays on.

[Big_Blue_Wannabe]

Originally Posted by bucky

I feel it is skin.

The facts don’t care about your feelings.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by bucky

I do not see where it shows that.

See Bob's Post #12 above, Situation 4.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by frezer11

See Bob's Post #12 above, Situation 4.

I did and still do not see where it shows that. I read it as the warm up top comes off to reveal bare skin. I do not read that it requires the jersey be underneath. Just my opinion.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

I did and still do not see where it shows that. I read it as the warm up top comes off to reveal bare skin. I do not read that it requires the jersey be underneath. Just my opinion.

I do not believe that it is the bare skin that matters. It is the doffing and/or donning of the jersey itself. Consider the case where a player gets blood on a jersey but has an undershirt on too. That player still has to exit the gym to change the jersey.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It is the doffing and/or donning of the jersey itself.

Maybe by interpretation, but not by rule. The rule only states that players can't remove the jersey and/or pants/skirt within the visual confines of the playing area.

[pfan1981]

Does anyone see this being addressed by the NFHS? I do. Can you imagine a very physical team wearing all skin tight undershirts for warm ups? I do not feel the governing body would allow this.

What are your thoughts?