When to Kill a Play for an Apparent Injury

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Coach might have been more upset at that Charmin Soft™ and-1 you called when he’s already down 12.

I kid, but have a more patient whistle there JRut. Don’t think you needed that one.

I am fine with the whistle. Two hands in the back on the shot that bowed the shooter. Called that silly foul all game on both sides as a crew. He is not defending the play, just pushing a player in the back. Calling that every game and situation.

Peace

[walt]

While I probably would have stopped the play when the first pass was made and no drive or shot occurred, I can also see why play continued. HTBT and part of the crew.

As for the whistle, I agree with Rut. That is a foul and the whistle is needed. A two-handed push in the back cannot be ignored. I also personally agree with the personal foul call and-1. However, isn't that the type of action/foul the NFHS wants to be called as an intentional foul? No legitimate attempt to play the ball. Again, I am guilty of probably not calling intentional fouls when they should be called BY DEFINITION but I like the personal foul and-1.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am fine with the whistle. Two hands in the back on the shot that bowed the shooter. Called that silly foul all game on both sides as a crew. He is not defending the play, just pushing a player in the back. Calling that every game and situation.

Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.

It's pretty impressive that you can tell all that from the crappy camera angle we have in this clip and JRut is at a perfect angle to actually make the call.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.

So from this camera you have a better determination of the contact than the Lead has?

[BigT]

I was doing sign language for 13 years and body language and other cues are huge. I use them in basketball. If I see the defenders arms tighten when that foul happens or as someone said the player arches on his own because he realizes he is too deep under the basket. All of that is taken into account including other plays that game. Just way too much judgement here and our camera angle isnt great. I do know this. Just listening to JRut for years... he has good judgement and I am going with his call every time.

Originally Posted by BigT

I was doing sign language for 13 years and body language and other cues are huge. I use them in basketball. If I see the defenders arms tighten when that foul happens or as someone said the player arches on his own because he realizes he is too deep under the basket. All of that is taken into account including other plays that game. Just way too much judgement here and our camera angle isnt great. I do know this. Just listening to JRut for years... he has good judgement and I am going with his call every time.

What does your analysis of the body language clues tell you?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

What does your analysis of the body language clues tell you?

Well when a player does something unnatural or something they would not normally do with their body and contact took place, then it is a foul. We can always suggest that it did not change anything, but a player does not bow their back to make a normal shot. It would not be surprised me if he missed the shot, but he didn't and I am not waiting in this instance to see, so I called the foul. It is not always about the severity of the contact. Ironically I was back at the same school and we had several plays with much more contact and legal defenders and we called nothing in those cases.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.

OK, glad you know. But either way, I was not really looking for your approval, just stating what I saw. And in my world (and in my experience) that is a foul and a foul every time. The angle is not great in the video, but I saw the play clearly. If that is the worst thing you can say, then I am sleeping well at night about that call. Never crossed my mind it was not a foul. And I made a similar call like that last night.

Peace