The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 10:58am
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I don't lose sight of players who go down and may be injured. In a 3-man crew, I will always stay in the backcourt until play can be stopped.
I meant the camera moved ahead so that I, as a viewer watching the video, couldn't see the player.

For the record, I'm with you. I won't leave an injured player.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 01:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers View Post
Yep. As soon as he pulled back and wasn't running the break, I'd probably blow it dead.
Agree.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 11:32am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
If those that did not know, I was on this particular game. I was the new lead in the situation and was unaware at the time that there was even an injury. I did not notice the player stayed back until the play was killed.

When I looked at the video, I was just fine with what was done. The Trail and the Center knew more about the play than I did at the time. I could make an argument that either thing could be done. I would have been fine if they stopped play and I was fine with them keeping the play going. The player was not in immediate danger. He was not going to bleed out, he was down for either turning his ankle or hurting his knee. If there were players around him then I get the position to totally stop the play. But when the player goes down, we have no idea if he is going to get up, which I see all the time and try to continue.

Full disclosure, the coach was upset and eventually got a T. It might have been for that situation, but I am not sure that was the only situation he was complaining about.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 12:07pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
If those that did not know, I was on this particular game. I was the new lead in the situation and was unaware at the time that there was even an injury. I did not notice the player stayed back until the play was killed.

When I looked at the video, I was just fine with what was done. The Trail and the Center knew more about the play than I did at the time. I could make an argument that either thing could be done. I would have been fine if they stopped play and I was fine with them keeping the play going. The player was not in immediate danger. He was not going to bleed out, he was down for either turning his ankle or hurting his knee. If there were players around him then I get the position to totally stop the play. But when the player goes down, we have no idea if he is going to get up, which I see all the time and try to continue.

Full disclosure, the coach was upset and eventually got a T. It might have been for that situation, but I am not sure that was the only situation he was complaining about.
Coach might have been more upset at that Charmin Soft™ and-1 you called when he’s already down 12.

I kid, but have a more patient whistle there JRut. Don’t think you needed that one.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 12:24pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Coach might have been more upset at that Charmin Soft™ and-1 you called when he’s already down 12.

I kid, but have a more patient whistle there JRut. Don’t think you needed that one.
I am fine with the whistle. Two hands in the back on the shot that bowed the shooter. Called that silly foul all game on both sides as a crew. He is not defending the play, just pushing a player in the back. Calling that every game and situation.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 12:40pm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: DE
Posts: 226
While I probably would have stopped the play when the first pass was made and no drive or shot occurred, I can also see why play continued. HTBT and part of the crew.

As for the whistle, I agree with Rut. That is a foul and the whistle is needed. A two-handed push in the back cannot be ignored. I also personally agree with the personal foul call and-1. However, isn't that the type of action/foul the NFHS wants to be called as an intentional foul? No legitimate attempt to play the ball. Again, I am guilty of probably not calling intentional fouls when they should be called BY DEFINITION but I like the personal foul and-1.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 12:49pm
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
What about this play?



Peace
I'm more concerned with the foul called on this play...From the camera angle it doesn't look like much
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 01:04pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
I'm more concerned with the foul called on this play...From the camera angle it doesn't look like much
From the camera angle you can see the defender attempts to push the shooter. From the Lead's angle, the amount of contact is a lot easier to discern.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 01:33pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I am fine with the whistle. Two hands in the back on the shot that bowed the shooter. Called that silly foul all game on both sides as a crew. He is not defending the play, just pushing a player in the back. Calling that every game and situation.
Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 01:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.
It's pretty impressive that you can tell all that from the crappy camera angle we have in this clip and JRut is at a perfect angle to actually make the call.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 01:45pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.
So from this camera you have a better determination of the contact than the Lead has?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 02:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SLC Utah
Posts: 567
I was doing sign language for 13 years and body language and other cues are huge. I use them in basketball. If I see the defenders arms tighten when that foul happens or as someone said the player arches on his own because he realizes he is too deep under the basket. All of that is taken into account including other plays that game. Just way too much judgement here and our camera angle isnt great. I do know this. Just listening to JRut for years... he has good judgement and I am going with his call every time.
__________________
BigT "The rookie"
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 10, 2018, 02:51pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Bowing the back is not really a good indicator to use IMO. The shooter is too far under the basket and probably arches his back himself to get a better angle on the shot. The defender does not have his arms extended, does not displace the shooter, and the shooter is barely affected by the marginal contact.
OK, glad you know. But either way, I was not really looking for your approval, just stating what I saw. And in my world (and in my experience) that is a foul and a foul every time. The angle is not great in the video, but I saw the play clearly. If that is the worst thing you can say, then I am sleeping well at night about that call. Never crossed my mind it was not a foul. And I made a similar call like that last night.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 11, 2018, 09:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth- For Now
Posts: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
No, I understand what the post in and of itself meant. What doesn't make sense is leaving it has a reply to my post, which had nothing to do with the fans or getting the call right.
Pretty sure he replied to your post as an example of what you suggested about people's priorities not being in order with regard to player safety.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 11, 2018, 10:08am
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I was doing sign language for 13 years and body language and other cues are huge. I use them in basketball. If I see the defenders arms tighten when that foul happens or as someone said the player arches on his own because he realizes he is too deep under the basket. All of that is taken into account including other plays that game. Just way too much judgement here and our camera angle isnt great. I do know this. Just listening to JRut for years... he has good judgement and I am going with his call every time.
What does your analysis of the body language clues tell you?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
When to kill the play? chapmaja Softball 21 Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:59pm
When Do We Kill Play after Obstruction Manny A Softball 6 Fri May 24, 2013 01:27pm
Kill it or let it play out? argodad Softball 25 Fri Apr 17, 2009 09:49pm
What penalties kill the play BoBo Football 10 Mon Sep 22, 2008 09:29am
Kill the Play or Not? Fedex Football 9 Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:05pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:34am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1