Simultaneous common & intentional fouls

[Nevadaref]

The first two responders gave you the two choices.

1. Rule this a double-foul and resume at the POI without attempting any FTs. Doesn't matter that one foul was deemed intentional.

2. Rule that the second foul is intentional contact during a dead ball (technical foul) and penalize the fouls in the order in which they occurred. Bonus FTs for A1 with the lane cleared, followed by 2FTs for Team B and possession to Team B at the division line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... and possession to Team B at the division line.

Good point Nevadaref. Not all intentional fouls are inbounded at the spot nearest the foul, i.e., intentional fouls during a dead ball (technical foul).

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2FTs for Team B

Also, as you pointed out, any member of Team B can shoot the technical foul free throws for the dead ball intentional foul (doesn't have to be the intentional foulee).

[deecee]

I would assess these separately. Common foul then dead ball contact T.

[Cadet]

Is it a dead ball foul if the whistle hasn't blown yet?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Cadet

Is it a dead ball foul if the whistle hasn't blown yet?

Ball is dead on the foul, the whistle may come after. This is just a very "odd" double foul. I would personally either have ignored the second contact or go with the T. A double foul is to be used when the contact is equal and at the same time as far as real life application is concerned. In a case where a kid goes to take a charge and its a block and the offensive player not only just knocked the kid down, but then shoves him.

The rule supports a double foul here I personally would go with one of the 2 options I provided.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Cadet

Is it a dead ball foul if the whistle hasn't blown yet?

Yes, the whistle isn't what makes the ball dead. The foul or violation does that. This is noted as one of the twenty rules fundamentals in the NFHS rules book.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Cadet

Is it a dead ball foul if the whistle hasn't blown yet?

There are plenty of dead balls throughout a game without a whistle at all. In some games, it may be the majority of dead balls.

Most of the rest occur demonstrably before any whistle that acknowledges them (fouls, violations, held balls).

Only a select few times does the whistle actually make the ball dead. Mainly inadvertent whistles.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...


Also, as you pointed out, any member of Team B can shoot the technical foul free throws for the dead ball intentional foul (doesn't have to be the intentional foulee).

Dead ball intentional foul? That's a thing now?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Dead ball intentional foul? That's a thing now?

While the correct term is "Intentional Technical Foul" what billy wrote also seems to me to be a correct description.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Dead ball intentional foul? That's a thing now?

The only illegal contact foul that we can call during a dead ball is either an intentional foul, or a flagrant foul. If it's not a flagrant foul, the only other choice we have is to call an intentional foul. The fact that there is illegal contact during dead ball makes it a technical foul.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The only illegal contact foul that we can call during a dead ball is either an intentional foul, or a flagrant foul. If it's not a flagrant foul, the only other choice we have is to call an intentional foul. The fact that there is illegal contact during dead ball makes it a technical foul.

I am going to piggy back onto Bill's comment.

That while by definition we can have an Intentional Technical Foul, ITFs are a thing of the past. The Free Throw portion of a TF penalty is two FTs for each TF, no matter what type of TF is being assessed. But in the "Ancient Days" that was not the case. In the "Ancient Days" the FTs awarded for a TF that was neither Intentional or Flagrant was only one FT, while two FTs were awarded for ITFs and FTFs. Therefore, the only thing we need to concern ourselves is whether the TF is Flagrant or not.

MTD, Sr.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The only illegal contact foul that we can call during a dead ball is either an intentional foul, or a flagrant foul. If it's not a flagrant foul, the only other choice we have is to call an intentional foul. The fact that there is illegal contact during dead ball makes it a technical foul.

I think he knew that.


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[BigT]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point Nevadaref. Not all intentional fouls are inbounded at the spot nearest the foul, i.e., intentional fouls during a dead ball (technical foul).



Also, as you pointed out, any member of Team B can shoot the technical foul free throws for the dead ball intentional foul (doesn't have to be the intentional foulee).

If I throw a punch during a dead ball at A12 and miss A13 can come in and shoot the T? I thought that technicals that anyone could shoot were like administrative or bench or HC T's...

Im a bit lost now.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

If I throw a punch during a dead ball at A12 and miss A13 can come in and shoot the T? I thought that technicals that anyone could shoot were like administrative or bench or HC T's...

Im a bit lost now.

In NFHS, any foul that is deemed a technical foul can be shot by any member of the other team. So, in your play, even if the punch lands, anyone can shoot it.

[deecee]

"Intentional" fouls are for live ball contact. The penalty is player that was fouled shoots the FT's and ball inbounded to the offended team at spot closest to the foul.

If the punch was landed during live ball action then Charlie that got clocked would shoot the FT's, assuming he can. Any other action AFTER the initial punch is dead ball activity and any player can shoot those FT's if there are any. However Charlie will need to "man" up, unless he's out cold then its understandable, and take his FT's.