Simultaneous common & intentional fouls

[Cadet]

Team A is in bonus
A1 is dribbling the ball and is blocked by B1 (common foul). A fraction of a second later (before the whistle blows), A1 extends an arm and pushes B1 hard to the ground (ruled intentional...not enough for flagrant).

What's the restart? Do we go with POI as we would with 2 common fouls, or go with the more severe foul / give 2 shots and the ball to B?

[crosscountry55]

By your description I believe this is a false double foul.

However, if you're going to call this a double foul, then I believe when they are of unequal severity as in your case, you report both, but resume with the administration for the more serious foul, as if the common foul had not occurred. In other words, two shots for B1 and ball to B nearest the spot of the foul.

Again, by your description, I'd be more apt to call a false double foul and administer penalties in the order in which the fouls occurred, keeping in mind that the second foul would be an intentional technical foul in that case.


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[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Cadet

Team A is in bonus
A1 is dribbling the ball and is blocked by B1 (common foul). A fraction of a second later (before the whistle blows), A1 extends an arm and pushes B1 hard to the ground (ruled intentional...not enough for flagrant).

What's the restart? Do we go with POI as we would with 2 common fouls, or go with the more severe foul / give 2 shots and the ball to B?

From your description one could say that this is a Double Foul. It does not matter that one foul is a Common Foul and the other is an Intentional Personal Foul, it is still a Double Foul. Both fouls are charged and play is resumed using the POI protocol which in this case a Designated Spot Throw-in by Team A nearest the spot of the Double Foul.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

The first two responders gave you the two choices.

1. Rule this a double-foul and resume at the POI without attempting any FTs. Doesn't matter that one foul was deemed intentional.

2. Rule that the second foul is intentional contact during a dead ball (technical foul) and penalize the fouls in the order in which they occurred. Bonus FTs for A1 with the lane cleared, followed by 2FTs for Team B and possession to Team B at the division line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... and possession to Team B at the division line.

Good point Nevadaref. Not all intentional fouls are inbounded at the spot nearest the foul, i.e., intentional fouls during a dead ball (technical foul).

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

2FTs for Team B

Also, as you pointed out, any member of Team B can shoot the technical foul free throws for the dead ball intentional foul (doesn't have to be the intentional foulee).

[deecee]

I would assess these separately. Common foul then dead ball contact T.

[Cadet]

Is it a dead ball foul if the whistle hasn't blown yet?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

...


Also, as you pointed out, any member of Team B can shoot the technical foul free throws for the dead ball intentional foul (doesn't have to be the intentional foulee).

Dead ball intentional foul? That's a thing now?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Dead ball intentional foul? That's a thing now?

While the correct term is "Intentional Technical Foul" what billy wrote also seems to me to be a correct description.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Dead ball intentional foul? That's a thing now?

The only illegal contact foul that we can call during a dead ball is either an intentional foul, or a flagrant foul. If it's not a flagrant foul, the only other choice we have is to call an intentional foul. The fact that there is illegal contact during dead ball makes it a technical foul.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Good point Nevadaref. Not all intentional fouls are inbounded at the spot nearest the foul, i.e., intentional fouls during a dead ball (technical foul).



Also, as you pointed out, any member of Team B can shoot the technical foul free throws for the dead ball intentional foul (doesn't have to be the intentional foulee).

If I throw a punch during a dead ball at A12 and miss A13 can come in and shoot the T? I thought that technicals that anyone could shoot were like administrative or bench or HC T's...

Im a bit lost now.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigT

If I throw a punch during a dead ball at A12 and miss A13 can come in and shoot the T? I thought that technicals that anyone could shoot were like administrative or bench or HC T's...

Im a bit lost now.

In NFHS, any foul that is deemed a technical foul can be shot by any member of the other team. So, in your play, even if the punch lands, anyone can shoot it.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

However, if you're going to call this a double foul, then I believe when they are of unequal severity as in your case, you report both, but resume with the administration for the more serious foul, as if the common foul had not occurred. In other words, two shots for B1 and ball to B nearest the spot of the foul.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The first two responders gave you the two choices.

1. Rule this a double-foul and resume at the POI without attempting any FTs. Doesn't matter that one foul was deemed intentional.

Nevada is right on the administration for the double personal in this case, I'm wrong. Mea culpa. 10-7 Penalty 1c (+ Note, and I would argue that the note needs to be edited to include the word "intentional").

Was I thinking of an NCAA rule where one foul of a double foul is common and the other is F1 or F2?


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