Does Continuation Apply?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

How we still discussing fouls which occur during a jump-stop? Too many paragraphs above for me to keep up.

BNR:

We are still discussing it because far too many officials are under the mistaken impression that W4 was not fouled in the act of shooting.

MTD, Sr.

[Bob Bball]

Mark, Thanks for the article from Referee Magazine. I read it and now can definitely say "before the shoot"

The contact occurred during the gathering of the ball to do a jump stop.

There was no contact when the player started an upward habitual motion to shoot.

I do not know about the rest of you, but, I can not read a players mind when doing a jump stop as to what they are going to do next. I have to wait and see.

In this case, we had contact just as the jump "stop' begin" and a foul was called. The jump stop was completed after the foul was called.

Then the player throw up a shoot after the after the foul had already taken place.

"before the shoot". I like that phrasing. Thanks for the article!

[zm1283]

I feel like I award shooting fouls far more than most officials, but this is not a shooting foul. If it is your games must be lasting 2 1/2 hours with all the free throws you're shooting.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BNR:

We are still discussing it because far too many officials are under the mistaken impression that W4 was not fouled in the act of shooting.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

Your plays are like Kareem dribbling, back in in opponent. When he ends dribble he gives a head and shoulder fake to the right. leans that way. his left foot would come up off ground at times or it would simply slide to right a bit. He then would pick it up and go back left quick and sky hook.

If he is fouled after ending the dribble and during the head and shoulder fake right.(left foot in air) that is not a shooting foul. He hasn't started a shot yet. If he starts back left and then is fouled we have something to talk about.

Kevin McHale had great footwork. Reverse pivot, step through etc. He did all that after ending a dribble at times….but I'm not giving him two in a high school or college game after he ends the dribble and while he is doing his reverse pivot. He just hasn't started shooting yet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

BNR:

We are still discussing it because far too many officials are under the mistaken impression that W4 was not fouled in the act of shooting.

MTD, Sr.

A jump stop is not the beginning of a shooting motion. It's the beginning of a player standing on 2 feet holding the ball. I had a game Tuesday night where every time the guard executed a jump stop he passed the ball. 100% of the time. He would penetrate, jump stop, then kick out to a jump shooter.

[Pantherdreams]

Jump stop does not equal shot.

So because the foul happens in mid jump stop she does not get continuation. If she has landed the jump stop and could as she is beginning her shooting motion I would be ok with it.

Can step be part of a shooting motion sure. That doesn't mean it is.

So every time someone gets bumped in stride and then lifts the ball to fire it once they hear the whistle they aren't getting continuation either. I have to believe the movement is part of their shooting motion, them shooting or not shooting it at the end (as we've debated numerous times) has nothing to do with whether they were in the act of shooting when fouled.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

A jump stop is not the beginning of a shooting motion. It's the beginning of a player standing on 2 feet holding the ball. I had a game Tuesday night where every time the guard executed a jump stop he passed the ball. 100% of the time. He would penetrate, jump stop, then kick out to a jump shooter.

Well, because w4 ended up shooting everything after ending dribble counts. He's swimming in Lake Michigan in January...:

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Bob and Big Cat:

I made the Plays easier for you to follow:

Play A: Team A has the ball in its FC. A1, Team A's 7'-00" right handed center is set up in the low post with his back to the basket. A1 receives a pass from A2, and then in one continuous motion: he picks up his left foot, jumps off his right foot (to his left), lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot, and while airborne either: 1) releases the ball on a pass to A3, or 2) releases the ball for a hook shot that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 after he has started to step with his left foot but before but before he releases the ball for his: (1) pass to A3, or (2) hook shot. What it your Ruling?


Play B: Team A has the ball in its FC. A1, Team A's 7'-00" right handed center is dribbling the ball while set up in the low post with his back to the basket. A1 stops his dribble and then in one continuous motion: he picks up his left foot, jumps off his right foot (to his left), lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot, and while airborne either: 1) releases the ball on a pass to A3, or 2) releases the ball for a hook shot that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 anytime after he has started to step with his left foot but before he releases the ball for his: (1) pass to A3, or (2) hook shot. What it your Ruling?


Play C: A1 catches a pass from A2 while both of her feet are in the air. She then, in one continuous motion, lands on her right foot, then jumps off her right foot, then lands on her left foot, and then jumps off of her left foot, after which she releases the ball: 1) on a pass to A3, or 2) a layup that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 anytime after she has caught A2's pass and but before she releases the ball for her: (1) pass to A3, or (2) layup. What it your Ruling?


Play D: A1 is dribbling the ball and ends her dribble while both of her feet are in the air. She then, in one continuous motion, lands on her right foot, then jumps off her right foot, then lands on her left foot, and then jumps off of her left foot, after which she releases the ball for her: 1) on a pass to A3, or 2) a layup that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 anytime after she has ended her dribble but before she releases the ball for her: (1) pass to A3, or (2) layup. What it your Ruling?

What the players do in all of your plays after the foul doesn't matter. It's what they are doing when they are fouled that matters.

In the video, the player was not shooting (or preparing to shoot, or whatever the specific rule wording is.)

[deecee]

Guys I had a foul call yesterday where the kid just held a pelican pose on his pivot foot for like 10 minutes. After 5 seconds I went to get the ball and he told me about this post that he read on some officiating forum that he still has the right to continuous motion and cited some guy named Mark. I was convinced so we all sat back and waited.

After the 10 minutes he passed to a teammate who was sitting on the floor because we were all tired. So we gave him 2 shots and carried on. Great times.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

What the players do in all of your plays after the foul doesn't matter. It's what they are doing when they are fouled that matters.

In the video, the player was not shooting (or preparing to shoot, or whatever the specific rule wording is.)

And it may be apropos to nothing, but the "let's do anything we can to help the offense" NBA specifically has a rule that says a player fouled on a jump stop is NOT in the act of shooting.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And it may be apropos to nothing, but the "let's do anything we can to help the offense" NBA specifically has a rule that says a player fouled on a jump stop is NOT in the act of shooting.

That is a proper ending point. Moderators plz put lock on it...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BigCat

That is a proper ending point. Moderators plz put lock on it...

Nah, I'm enjoying this way too much. It's like watching someone polish a turd.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

... kid just held a pelican pose on his pivot foot for like 10 minutes..

Did you mean to say "Flamingo"?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Did you mean to say "Flamingo"?

Common mistake. Just ask Tony Montana.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by Matt

Common mistake. Just ask Tony Montana.

You mean Joe Montana?
Or Tony Danza?