PC foul without a falling player (Video)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I actually like the call. I think it is very close, but I would call that and have called that. I do not need a defender to fall to be OK with the call.

BTW, this led to a T on the coach of the team that had a PC foul called on. But that is just more context, but thought I would show only the play in question first.

Peace

I think I want to see the T.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I think I want to see the T.

Give me some time and I can post the video.

Peace

[SWMOzebra]

My first choice here would be a patient whistle and a no-call. Yes, I agree with those who say the defender was disadvantaged by being driven under the basket ... but the offensive player ended up on the ground, so I'm having trouble seeing exactly what advantage he gained from the contact.

All this being said, if you're going to have a whistle here then PC is the right call.

No way this is a blocking foul, the defender did nothing wrong here.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

My first choice here would be a patient whistle and a no-call. Yes, I agree with those who say the defender was disadvantaged by being driven under the basket ... but the offensive player ended up on the ground, so I'm having trouble seeing exactly what advantage he gained from the contact.

All this being said, if you're going to have a whistle here then PC is the right call.

No way this is a blocking foul, the defender did nothing wrong here.

He managed to get a shot off that almost went in and then give his team a rebounding opportunity.

[Amesman]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

He managed to get a shot off that almost went in and then give his team a rebounding opportunity.

This.

While I also would not have a problem with it either way and in all likelihood would have passed on it, it can be thought of in terms of displacement. If a point guard uses his non-dribbling hand to demonstrably push or bump back a defender 2-3 feet -- or buries a shoulder to push off a defender after a stopped dribble -- to make space for a shot, wouldn't it be PC?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

He managed to get a shot off that almost went in and then give his team a rebounding opportunity.

I don't view the jumping in as giving the shooter an advantage. He actually stood a better chance of scoring if he just elevated and shot the ball. Jumping in creates more difficult shot. I'm glad there was no bailout of the offense. Defense did nothing wrong. There's merit to saying more of these should be called. Not so much, imo, to stop flopping but to make the offense pull up and shoot the short jumper.

These days i see so many big players catch ball, great size advantage, and instead of just shooting it they want to get from 5 feet to 2 feet. My mindset is not to bail them out but hasn't gone to calling this play a foul…yet. Like Rich said, would everybody do it? Would need to come from the top.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I don't view the jumping in as giving the shooter an advantage.

It prevents a defender from jumping to challenge the shot.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

It prevents a defender from jumping to challenge the shot.

I think, if I remember, defender made it into the air and challenged shot. Offensive player made it more difficult to score by jumping in. Much tougher shot than just elevating up for the 8 footer or whatever.

[OKREF]

Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.

This is one of my favorite questions not only to ask myself, but also to ask a coach when they're begging for a foul on the defense, or even a partner if I'm questioning something they called when we discuss things after the game.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.

Personal confession: That's a hard call for me to make. As described I agree it's a PC, but for whatever reason, I tend to default to block on this. Maybe I see (or have seen) too many defenders shift sideways just as the offense tries to go around (especially with the euro step -- and that means that I have to look for and judge travelling as well) so now I expect it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.

You're right. Not being torso-to-torso doesn't make it a block if the defender had LGP. That merely means it is probably not going to be a PC with minimal/marginal actual contact. It is not illegal when a shooter/dribble is almost able to avoid the defender instead of hitting them sqaure.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.

Ugh, I occasionally work with a couple partners who want to (and do) call this a block, and then explain to the coach that "he has to take it square..." SMH...