Fumbled Ball (cont)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by OKREF

However it is our job to judge intent, and simply throwing a ball against a backboard doesn't mean its a shot.

True.

However, that is the entire purpose of this case play. It does't have to be judged a shot but doing so, by way of this case, is effectively the same as it being a shot. It would be pointless to have this case play otherwise. What player is going to throw the ball off the backboard and stand still and catch it?Sometimes, you just have to apply some basic sense to the case play.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by OKREF

This I agree with.

However it is our job to judge intent, and simply throwing a ball against a backboard doesn't mean its a shot.

This is one where I don't care to "judge" intent. A player throws the ball towards the basket it's a shot attempt. Why else would they throw the ball that direction?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

True.

However, that is the entire purpose of this case play. It does't have to be judged a shot but doing so, by way of this case, is effectively the same as it being a shot. It would be pointless to have this case play otherwise. What player is going to throw the ball off the backboard and stand still and catch it?Sometimes, you just have to apply some basic sense to the case play.

The purpose is to show that you can double dribble off an official or opponents backboard. They deemed it important to remind us the ending of 4-15.1.

@Deecee

I've seen this play a few times: A1 tries to pass from under the basket and hits the bottom edge of the backboard and then he/she catches it.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by deecee

This is one where I don't care to "judge" intent. A player throws the ball towards the basket it's a shot attempt. Why else would they throw the ball that direction?

I do see your point and could be persuaded into that line of thought. At least with that reasoning there wouldn't be any reason to judge intent.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

The purpose is to show that you can double dribble off an official or opponents backboard. They deemed it important to remind us the ending of 4-15.1.

@Deecee

I've seen this play a few times: A1 tries to pass from under the basket and hits the bottom edge of the backboard and then he/she catches it.

Come on, lets be reasonable and realistic. This would only happen in a varsity game on an inbounds (lower levels sure maybe). If a player is trying to throw the basket out from UNDER the backboard and it hits the bottom of the backboard then it's pretty reasonable to say it's not a shot attempt. I didn't think I need to cover 360 degrees of hypothetical situations.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Come on, lets be reasonable and realistic. This would only happen in a varsity game on an inbounds (lower levels sure maybe). If a player is trying to throw the basket out from UNDER the backboard and it hits the bottom of the backboard then it's pretty reasonable to say it's not a shot attempt. I didn't think I need to cover 360 degrees of hypothetical situations.

Fair enough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

This is one where I don't care to "judge" intent. A player throws the ball towards the basket it's a shot attempt. Why else would they throw the ball that direction?

I have actually done it while playing. I was well defended such that I couldn't get a good shot off but I could get the ball to bounce off the board. I do so, ran around the defender to catch the "rebound" and then made the shot.

This is also basically the self alley-oop we sometimes see off the board before a dunk.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I have actually done it while playing. I was well defended such that I couldn't get a good shot off but I could get the ball to bounce off the board. I do so, ran around the defender to catch the "rebound" and then made the shot.

This is also basically the self alley-oop we sometimes see off the board before a dunk.

I believe it is legal...without any doubt. Also, believe you threw ball against board, I suppose I believe u ran around a defender and rebounded ball. I do NOT believe u made the shot....😃

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

You can't just throw it off the (your own) backboard and retrieve it.

Actually, according to 9.5 SITUATION, you can. The question being discussed is regarding what the player can, or cannot do, after retrieving the ball off the backboard, assuming that the player has already ended his dribble, and the official deems this not to be a shot. Can the player legally start a new dribble (as after a try)? Also, does it matter whether, or not, the player moves his feet before retrieving the ball off the backboard?

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dad

A1 tries to pass from under the basket and hits the bottom edge of the backboard and then he/she catches it.

Nice scenario. Assuming he had already ended his dribble, can he legally start a new dribble?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

If you shoot the ball off your own backboard in an attempt to score, then it is legal. You can't just throw it off the backboard and retrieve it. It must be considered a try for goal.

Originally Posted by Dad

I agree with this.

How can you agree with the second part of OKREF's post? It's in direct opposition to the caseplay. A player can just throw it off of (his) backboard and retrieve it, especially if he doesn't move his feet (which is not mentioned, one way, or the other, in the caseplay).

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

Ball toward basket = shot attempt.

This would certainly be nice, but it's not the present rule.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This would certainly be nice, but it's not the present rule.

The present rule leaves it open to be OO and a poor adjudicator of the game.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How can you agree with the second part of OKREF's post? It's in direct opposition to the caseplay. A player can just throw it off of (his) backboard and retrieve it, especially if he doesn't move his feet (which is not mentioned, one way, or the other, in the caseplay).

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an
official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and
(c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official
constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it
strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19)

Hmm. 4.15.4 C says you can only do this if it is considered a shot.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Hmm. 4.15.4 C says you can only do this if it is considered a shot.

Read it again when u get a chance and 9.5. The rule 4 play doesn't say u can only do it if it is a shot.