Fumbled Ball (cont)
Thanks for all the posts on my fumbled ball scenario...one response got me to thinking ... and that response was "that you cannot travel without the ball!" Makes lots of sense ...It did make me think of 3 hypothetical scenarios however... I would appreciate your expertise
In all three scenarios ... the offensive Player has picked up his dribble in the back court A In A the offensive being closely regarded decides to roll the ball on the floor away from the double team ...while his chances may be slim to be the first to get to the ball ..lets say he or she does ...is this a violation ... and if so what violation Player A guilty of> In B and C ...same scenario trapped in the backcourt but near opponent's basket ... In B --- Player A throws the ball off opponent's backboard and then races to get the ball! In C ...Player A turns and shoots it at the goal and chases down the rebound ..what are the violations in these scenarios? And what would the violation termed ...Travelling...illegal dribble? |
Fumble Definition
"A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the player unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp."
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If I'm holding the ball and throw it over your head, take 5 steps and catch, that is travel. That isn't really "excess foot movement WHILE HOLDING the ball but it is still travel by casebook plays. Read, read and read more. All the time....good luck |
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Regarding your scenario (B), under 9.5 in the Case Book if A1 throws the ball against the opponent's backboard and is the first to touch the ball, this is Rule 9-5 illegal dribble violation. (Note: A1 could have thrown the ball against her own backboard.) Regarding your scenario (c), under 4.44 Situation B of the Case Book, if A1 "attempts a try" (defined in Rule 4-41-2 as basically a legitimate throw for a goal), but shoots an air ball and is able to get the rebound before the ball hits the floor, there is no violation. |
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Thanks for all of the responses ...just to continue the discussion
In my related earlier post back on April 7 "Travelling or Fumbled Ball" BEAREF posted: "Without possession of the ball a travel violation is not possible". And in this my current post: "Fumbled Ball(cont)" JeffM posted: "A fumble is the accidental loss of player control (of the ball) when the player unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp" I agree with the posts with all three of the "hypos" something illegal has occurred BUT in my mind a query still exists .... if you can't travel without the ball ... and the player in the 3 hypos does not have the ball .... there seems to be an inconsistency here ...is it just because a player inadvertently loses control of the ball due to a faulty maneuver of his own doing that we ignore that he or she was able to move to a different part of the court!" I understand it is in the casebook ...but is it written this way in the rulebook ...it seems a bit contradictory to me in one instance it is okay to go after and retrieve the ball and in another it is a violation of some sorts... |
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The ruling is that a ball thrown off a player's own backboard my be legally retrieved by that player without regard to whether you think it was a shot or not. |
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Some of those cases are enumerated, some may not be. Example: A1 obtains possession of the ball while laying on the floor...legal. A1 sits the ball on the floor and is no longer holding the ball...legal. A1 stand...legal. A1 picks up the ball...illegal....traveling. Even though A1 did not hold the ball while moving the or standing up, this is considered an unfair attempt to circumvent the rules and is to be considered as if A1 were holding the ball the entire time as far as the traveling rule goes. Tossing the ball into the air and running to catch it before it hits the floor is rules a violation under similar thinking. |
Citation Please ...
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9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent’s backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent’s backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19) According to this ruling, can said player legally start a dribble if he had already ended his dribble before the ball hit the backboard (assuming the official deems this not to be a try)? Also, this ruling doesn't stipulate whether, or not, the player moves his feet during this situation. What other "equipment" (why the NFHS quotes?) may be used in this manner? Headbands? This not my favorite casebook play. In my opinion this citation provides more questions than answers. I wish the NFHS would expound upon this play and give a more complete answer. How about: Any ball thrown off a players own basket, or backboard, is to always be considered a try? Now that would be nice, wouldn't it? Unfortunately the NFHS hasn't made that ruling yet. |
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I think that, yes, the player can then dribble. The player can move his/her feet. I believe the idea is that, in order to remove ambiguity in the action, treat it as if it were a shot (don't call any violations) except that it isn't a since it isn't an attempt to throw in into the basket. So, if it doesn't hit the board at all, the player would still be subject to traveling since it wasn't a shot. |
Not A Shot ...
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9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of: ART. 1 A try for field goal. ART. 2 A touch by an opponent. ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by, another player. |
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