Charge Or Block

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

He saw it or he didn't. Oh, how many times I've heard this and the person saying it is wrong because the call was right

What on earth is to and through? Sounds like a weird definition of how to call a PC. You have no idea what the calling official had. Maybe a cheap shot with an elbow. Our view on this play is complete garbage and looks like a no-call. Who knows what he saw.

Sadly I do believe that the farther one is from the point of the call the greater the likelihood for getting it wrong.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by deecee

Sadly I do believe that the farther one is from the point of the call the greater the likelihood for getting it wrong.

I don't disagree -- harder to get the *right* angle and the odds of bodies being in the way is higher.

Of course you can be too close, too.

[rickyss10]

I have a block. But I am inclined to think this is a two man crew and the L is late getting back into position. It should have her call, whether she was the C or L.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rickyss10

I have a block. But I am inclined to think this is a two man crew and the L is late getting back into position. It should have her call, whether she was the C or L.

No chance that this is a 2-person crew.

[rickyss10]

You may be right, The dribbler started in the T PCA so him making the call is not unheard of, but it looks like the C had the better look. She was much closer to the action.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by rickyss10

You may be right, The dribbler started in the T PCA so him making the call is not unheard of, but it looks like the C had the better look. She was much closer to the action.

I only say that because there'd be no reason for the C to stop where she did if there were only 2 officials.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

Sadly I do believe that the farther one is from the point of the call the greater the likelihood for getting it wrong.

I completely agree, but that should go through every official's mind when making calls. There are still calls I can make from 60 feet away.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rich

I only say that because there'd be no reason for the C to stop where she did if there were only 2 officials.

Some people forget how to do 2-man!

[Dad]

Originally Posted by rickyss10

You may be right, The dribbler started in the T PCA so him making the call is not unheard of, but it looks like the C had the better look. She was much closer to the action.

Closer doesn't = a better look. I'll take a better angle any day.

[VaTerp]

I'm not sure why people keep talking about this as if its even a block/charge situation worthy of discussion. Forget "to and through", the first question we should be asking in block/charge situations is "was the defender legal."

On this play the defender is clearly not legal so if there is a call to be made here, its clearly a block from the angle we have on the video.

But the T here, despite being horribly out of position, still has a better look between the players than the camera angle we have. And if there was a quick elbow by the dribbler he could have seen it. People are also talking about how awkwardly the defender fell. Which could be typical bad girls basketball or could be the result of an elbow from the offensive player.

Again, if there isnt something that we cant see on camera then this is one of the worst PC calls of all time. I understand that people are questioning the calling official b/c of his positioning, mechanics, and even the black band on his wrist.

But given the choice between there being something here we cant see and this being one of the worst PC calls of all time, I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say there was probably something there we didn't see.

I find it a little odd that on this forum where we generall try to give some the benefit of the doubt to the calling official in these videos, people are so willing to think that he made what IMO would have to be one of the worst PC calls in recent memory.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I'm not sure why people keep talking about this as if its even a block/charge situation worthy of discussion. Forget "to and through", the first question we should be asking in block/charge situations is "was the defender legal."

On this play the defender is clearly not legal so if there is a call to be made here, its clearly a block from the angle we have on the video.

But the T here, despite being horribly out of position, still has a better look between the players than the camera angle we have. And if there was a quick elbow by the dribbler he could have seen it. People are also talking about how awkwardly the defender fell. Which could be typical bad girls basketball or could be the result of an elbow from the offensive player.

Again, if there isnt something that we cant see on camera then this is one of the worst PC calls of all time. I understand that people are questioning the calling official b/c of his positioning, mechanics, and even the black band on his wrist.

But given the choice between there being something here we cant see and this being one of the worst PC calls of all time, I'm going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt and say there was probably something there we didn't see.

I find it a little odd that on this forum where we generall try to give some the benefit of the doubt to the calling official in these videos, people are so willing to think that he made what IMO would have to be one of the worst PC calls in recent memory.

Well said, except....

Oh I've seen some PC calls that would make you recant

[VaTerp]

I've seen some really bad ones as well so you're probably right.

But absent something with the off hand this one would rank up there.

[lamarr1958]

Originally Posted by Dad

He saw it or he didn't. Oh, how many times I've heard this and the person saying it is wrong because the call was right

What on earth is to and through? Sounds like a weird definition of how to call a PC. You have no idea what the calling official had. Maybe a cheap shot with an elbow. Our view on this play is complete garbage and looks like a no-call. Who knows what he saw.

I am not going to argue about a definition on how to call a player control foul that you may not have heard. A definition I have heard in many pre-games and I have also used in many. If I told you I heard it from both Kenny (During a talk we had he lives near me) and Tommy Mauer (In a camp I attended) would it still be weird? And I disagree with you about our view on this play is complete garbage. If this video was me at the trail making this call I would still disagree with it. That's all I have to say.

[bob jenkins]

"To and through" *used to be* a good guideline. I *think* that it's been cahnged so the "through" part isn't really required. It's more like "to and into the vertical space with enough contact to basue an advantage" -- but that isn't as mnemonic.

[HokiePaul]

Looked like maybe a carry first, but hard to tell. I'm not sure how the official got a placer control foul unless he saw something from his angle that we can't from the video (like a right hand/forarm pushing off). It should be a block from the angle we have (although from the angle we have in the video, I probably pass and let my partner(s) take it).