How would you have handled this situation?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I would've had a huddle with my crew before the throw-in to make sure everyone was on the same page with what could be a legal score and what could not. Especially with the person responsible for the last shot. This is the norm around here when there is .3 or less time on the clock.

So....what happened after your fit? You still have a partner on the court and some calmed down coaches. How was it handled after you came back from the locker room?

This would've saved a giant headache. Big oops indeed, but thanks for saying it.

We came back out and had OT. I got both coaches and just gave a vague, "We had a confusion about the last score and didn't think it'd change the outcome of the game." Luckily they both cut me a break and didn't ask for specifics. The OT was pretty awkward, for me. I had calmed down at that point but felt 'in the tank' and never really got out of it. Other two officials did great and ended up with a 6-point win by the away team. Home teams PG was fouled out and it hurt them.

[jTheUmp]

I think the biggest thing you could've done differently would've been having a discussion during the timeout that occurred just prior to this throw-in (assuming that there was a timeout, which, based on the description of what happened, there almost certainly was).

Make sure everybody's on the same page as far as who has last-second shot, if the shot can be a try or if it has to be a tap, can the thrower run along the end line, and any other potentially relevant information. Also gives us a chance to take a deep breath and relax just a little bit... when I get in these types of situations, I like to conclude with a "I hope you guys are having fun, because i sure am" just to help keep things loose.

Not sure how this guy would've reacted to such a conference, but at least you could've hashed out the mistaken rule without the "postgame/not really postgame" antics.

In other words, basically what Smitty said.

Originally Posted by Dad

He said since there was less than .3 it was impossible for a team to score, even with a tip. He said by rule there needs to be .3 seconds on the clock to allow a team to tip it in.

Rebuttal to this "interpretation": If this was actually true, why would we even need to play the last 0.2 seconds? Just end the game right then and be done with it.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Rebuttal to this "interpretation": If this was actually true, why would we even need to play the last 0.2 seconds? Just end the game right then and be done with it.

Agreed 100% and you are not incorrect in your reasoning for using this rebuttal, but I could see him saying there could be a violation or foul before time starts. This guy sounds like a real cowboy.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

I think the biggest thing you could've done differently would've been having a discussion during the timeout that occurred just prior to this throw-in (assuming that there was a timeout, which, based on the description of what happened, there almost certainly was).

And even if there was not a timeout, say there was a shot attempt that was then batted OOB, leaving the 0.2 on the clock, I would have no issue at all with a 5 second officials huddle, maybe even just the C and the T, to be absolutely certain everyone is on the same page.

I'm surprised that the guy even came back to the court, if he was so sure and he'd be around so long, then I would've guessed he would've been pretty stubborn too.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

I think the biggest thing you could've done differently would've been having a discussion during the timeout that occurred just prior to this throw-in (assuming that there was a timeout, which, based on the description of what happened, there almost certainly was).

Make sure everybody's on the same page as far as who has last-second shot, if the shot can be a try or if it has to be a tap, can the thrower run along the end line, and any other potentially relevant information. Also gives us a chance to take a deep breath and relax just a little bit... when I get in these types of situations, I like to conclude with a "I hope you guys are having fun, because i sure am" just to help keep things loose.

Not sure how this guy would've reacted to such a conference, but at least you could've hashed out the mistaken rule without the "postgame/not really postgame" antics.

In other words, basically what Smitty said.



Rebuttal to this "interpretation": If this was actually true, why would we even need to play the last 0.2 seconds? Just end the game right then and be done with it.

I worked a boys varsity game at a school...I was standing in the tunnel at the top of a flight of stairs and the clock stopped with 0.2 seconds left and a 1 point game. I took a few steps down to let my partners (who were stretching) know were were about to take the floor and here come the officials....they used this "interpretation" -- they figured that nothing could happen since it was 0.3 or under.

By this time all three of the officials were on the stairs and the teams were shaking hands.

The amazing thing is that nobody complained at all. I did tell the crew why that wasn't the right thing to do, however.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Dad

This would've saved a giant headache. Big oops indeed, but thanks for saying it.

We came back out and had OT. I got both coaches and just gave a vague, "We had a confusion about the last score and didn't think it'd change the outcome of the game." Luckily they both cut me a break and didn't ask for specifics. The OT was pretty awkward, for me. I had calmed down at that point but felt 'in the tank' and never really got out of it. Other two officials did great and ended up with a 6-point win by the away team. Home teams PG was fouled out and it hurt them.

What does this even mean and why did you choose to say this to the coaches?

IMO that's a terrible explanation and its patently false as deciding whether or not to count a score in this situation most certainly "changes the outcome of the game."

[Dad]

Sorry Rich this post brought up your play.

@jpgc99: I just left. For the first time ever in a HS game I didn't even change except shoes. Put on my coat, zipped it up, left. I'm grateful for the responses and they've helped. At the time when the game was over I was still frustrated and didn't want to open my mouth in case I said something stupid I'd regret. Jrut brought up a good point, but for whatever reason I just snapped this game and never want it to happen again.

@Nevada: I was the R. I didn't want to outright change the call without talking to the calling official first in case I missed something.

@VaTerp: I winged an answer I thought to be the best at the time. While you may think it's false/terrible/etc, I was okay with it given all the other stuff going on. My entire point was to make it obvious I didn't want to get into details but we screwed up. As angry as I was at the other official there's no way I'm throwing a partner to the coaches.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Dad

Sorry Rich this post brought up your play.

@VaTerp: I winged an answer I thought to be the best at the time. While you may think it's false/terrible/etc, I was okay with it given all the other stuff going on. My entire point was to make it obvious I didn't want to get into details but we screwed up. As angry as I was at the other official there's no way I'm throwing a partner to the coaches.

Its not that I "think it's false." You brought an offical who had waived off game tying shot back from the locker room to score the bucket and send what would have otherwise been a completed game into an extra period. To tell the coaches that "you didn't think it'd change the outcome of the game" is a blatant lie.

I guess you're fortunate that the coaches accepted this explanation. I can't think of any two coaches in this area who would just accept a completely nonsensical answer in a situation like this. Let alone, coaches of two teams ranked in the state.

I'm not the biggest fan of how you handled the situation but at the end of the day I'm all for getting it right. But IMO, we have a responsibility to communicate a situation like this as best we can to the coaches who are impacted by our administration of the game.

You have already thrown your party under the bus by your actions and people in the gym saw what happened and can figure things out. Not to mention the tape. You say your assigner got on you about your language. I'm assuming he was told about it and wasnt there. Has he seen the tape? Is that all he had to say about the situation?

As others have said, the biggest takeaway for me here is a good example of why you should always get partners together and discuss things like this in last possession situations. With .2 sec left we are reminding of who has the last shot, that it has to--and can be--a tip, and for everybody to have an idea of whether shot got off. No way someone is waiving something like this off and we aren't quickly confirming/communicating before leaving the court. I don't care how many years of officiating we all have, these are basic reminders that you repeat at the end of games to minimize the chances of these types of brain farts.

But hey, stuff happens. At the very least though you owe the coaches and participants (via the coaches) a reasonable explanantion here. Around here, your explanation and the coaches tape would have been on the assigners email and phone aroud 9:30pm. And that explanation would be a huge problem.

[Adam]

I don't know. It's probably not what I would have said, but it's not completely inaccurate either.

1. There was confusion about the last score.
2. One official didn't think it changed the outcome of the game, because he thought it couldn't count. "We" here is owning the mistake as a crew.

I really have no idea what I would have said. Maybe "Jimmy thought the game was over," or something like that.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich

I worked a boys varsity game at a school...I was standing in the tunnel at the top of a flight of stairs and the clock stopped with 0.2 seconds left and a 1 point game. I took a few steps down to let my partners (who were stretching) know were were about to take the floor and here come the officials....they used this "interpretation" -- they figured that nothing could happen since it was 0.3 or under.

By this time all three of the officials were on the stairs and the teams were shaking hands.

The amazing thing is that nobody complained at all. I did tell the crew why that wasn't the right thing to do, however.

A few years ago, I had stayed after the JV game to run the clock since the normal timer hadn't shown up. I just barely convinced a varsity crew that they had to play the last 0.2 seconds of the third quarter.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

A few years ago, I had stayed after the JV game to run the clock since the normal timer hadn't shown up. I just barely convinced a varsity crew that they had to play the last 0.2 seconds of the third quarter.

You know, a better timer would've just let time expire...

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Adam

I don't know. It's probably not what I would have said, but it's not completely inaccurate either.

1. There was confusion about the last score.
2. One official didn't think it changed the outcome of the game, because he thought it couldn't count. "We" here is owning the mistake as a crew.

I really have no idea what I would have said. Maybe "Jimmy thought the game was over," or something like that.

"Jimmy had some diarrhea. You know how it goes, Coach..."

[Dad]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Its not that I "think it's false." You brought an offical who had waived off game tying shot back from the locker room to score the bucket and send what would have otherwise been a completed game into an extra period. To tell the coaches that "you didn't think it'd change the outcome of the game" is a blatant lie.

I guess you're fortunate that the coaches accepted this explanation. I can't think of any two coaches in this area who would just accept a completely nonsensical answer in a situation like this. Let alone, coaches of two teams ranked in the state.

I'm not the biggest fan of how you handled the situation but at the end of the day I'm all for getting it right. But IMO, we have a responsibility to communicate a situation like this as best we can to the coaches who are impacted by our administration of the game.

You have already thrown your party under the bus by your actions and people in the gym saw what happened and can figure things out. Not to mention the tape. You say your assigner got on you about your language. I'm assuming he was told about it and wasnt there. Has he seen the tape? Is that all he had to say about the situation?

As others have said, the biggest takeaway for me here is a good example of why you should always get partners together and discuss things like this in last possession situations. With .2 sec left we are reminding of who has the last shot, that it has to--and can be--a tip, and for everybody to have an idea of whether shot got off. No way someone is waiving something like this off and we aren't quickly confirming/communicating before leaving the court. I don't care how many years of officiating we all have, these are basic reminders that you repeat at the end of games to minimize the chances of these types of brain farts.

But hey, stuff happens. At the very least though you owe the coaches and participants (via the coaches) a reasonable explanantion here. Around here, your explanation and the coaches tape would have been on the assigners email and phone aroud 9:30pm. And that explanation would be a huge problem.

You think it's false. Now you don't think it's false. Then you think your coaches are in a different box than the ones around here.

An explanation is NOT what was needed in this scenario. I was sure both coaches knew exactly what happened. Coaches are the majority of my votes and I don't think there's even a chance I lost a vote this night.

Cute change of story, kinda. Assigner called me about the write-up of the play I gave him. The official was the one who said people overheard me lighting him up. As of now, the assigner said no one else had contacted him about poor behavior in dealing with another official. Hope it stays that way, but it took some stress off since before I figured there was a chance if there were complaints by anyone in the school they may have banned me from officiating there.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Dad

Assigner called me about the write-up of the play I gave him. The official was the one who said people overheard me lighting him up. As of now, the assigner said no one else had contacted him about poor behavior in dealing with another official. Hope it stays that way, but it took some stress off since before I figured there was a chance if there were complaints by anyone in the school they may have banned me from officiating there.

What else has he said about the situation? If I was the assignor, I think I would have thanked you before anything else.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

What else has he said about the situation? If I was the assignor, I think I would have thanked you before anything else.

Yep, from the sounds of it, you saved your assigner a viral video involving his game.