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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 12:42pm
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Question

Situation:

ASA tournament, dugouts have openings on both ends.

R1 bunts, F2 fields ball and makes short throw that
bounces off F3's glove, heading towards 1st base dug-
out. I am PU. Partner is on outside to make the call.
Realizing he cannot run through or around the play in
time to reach 2B, hollars, "take two". Runner has gone
around towards 2B, coach hearing partners remarks, tells
her to go to 2B. Meantime F3 has retrived the ball and
puts the tag on R1 who is leisurely headed for 2B. BU
bangs her out.

Coach at 1B asks for time and talks to partner, who then
calls me for meet. After a brief discussion, I award R1
1B. My reasoning is that because of the matter in which
my partner yelled "take two" without adding prefix "Pard,
take two", player and coach thought he was advancing R1
because ball might have gone into dead ball terrority.

I only changed the call when partner said he also yelled
"no, no, no" adding more confussion. By his actions I
felt that we as umpires, had confussed the issue.

Did I make the correct call? I thought so at the time.

glen
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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 01:06pm
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Runner in Jeopardy?

Wow, this is one of those " Glad it waasn't me" situations. Maybe this is one of those where you're right and wrong no matter what you do. If you think your partner put the runner in jeopardy, prabably the right call. However, the other side of the argument is an umpire cannot award bases in a live ball situation and the coach shoulda known that also. I'll tell a runner to go to 2nd after I call a "Dead Ball" or " Illegal Pitch. " But you can't tell her to go to 2nd during a live ball.

I probably would have stuck with the out call, but that doesn't mean I would be right.

I was calling the plate in a slow pitch game, the trailing runner gets in a rundown between 2nd and 3rd. I went to 3rd yelling all the way " I got three! I got three!" Unfortunately, the crowd was so loud, no one heard me but the 3rd base coach. My partner knew I shoulda been there and looked to be sure, so he knew I was helping. He never heard me yell, and I ain't quiet on the the field. Anyway, I sold her out on the tag and called time. I turned around and the coach was already in my face, yelling. After I recovered and decided to leave him in the game, I finally understood that he was upset because he thought I had called time during the rundown. I never did. The misunderstanding had no bearing on the actions of the runner or defense. Finally, my partner came up and explained that what the coach heard was me yelling " I got three!" Once he understood this, it was a much calmer discussion. But in this situation, no one thought I was awarding anything or calling time except him. No one else could hear because both stands were yelling real loud. No matter what the misunderstanding was, the out was gonna stand in this situation. It was one of those close youth games you love to be in, just because it's competitive and fun.

Gonna be interesting to see the discussion on this your situation!!!!!!!
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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 01:58pm
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It all comes down to this one thing. Why would a player stop playing unless they heard "out", "dead ball" or "time"?

My little story from Wednesday night. Bases loaded, one out. Short pop to RC field. R3 has a good angle and sees the ball is going to drop and proceeds to 2B while the other runners are holding to see if the ball is caught. He rounds 2B only to see R2 returning to 2B, puts his hands out to push him back towards 3B and then returns to 2B.

After a couple of seconds while F4, F9 & F10 stand around deciding who is going to pick up the ball and return it to the infield, F6 takes a short-hop throw to 2B. R3 is just standing on the base. F6 literally backs into him and turns toward 3B wrapping around R3 and never really tagging him with the glove or ball. He sees the confusion and 3B and fires the ball in that direction. Only problem was, F5 was just as confused as the runners and the ball goes out of play.

Of course, this was all my fault. Why? Glad you asked!

The defense blamed me because I made no call at 2B. I didn't feel there was a play since the runner had been standing there and was never tagged, but only backed into. They INSISTED that I'm required to make a call anytime a defender touches a runner. I tried to explain that umpires make a call when there is a play. If it is obvious there is no play, why would I add to any of the already existing confusion making a totally unnecessary call.

Then came the next argument that, ...STANDBY FOR NEW MYTH OF SOFTBALL..., anytime a runner touches the runner in front of him, he is out.

News to me. I must have missed that rules change. Of course, my partner and I became idiots and the worst umpires in the world. That's right, we cost that team the game. Forget the fact the the #1 seed is about to get 12-runned by the #8 seed for the league championship as I'm sure they don't think the 16+ walks and multiple errors had anything to do with their downfall.

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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 02:15pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Situation:

ASA tournament, dugouts have openings on both ends.

R1 bunts, F2 fields ball and makes short throw that
bounces off F3's glove, heading towards 1st base dug-
out. I am PU. Partner is on outside to make the call.
Realizing he cannot run through or around the play in
time to reach 2B, hollars, "take two". Runner has gone
around towards 2B, coach hearing partners remarks, tells
her to go to 2B. Meantime F3 has retrived the ball and
puts the tag on R1 who is leisurely headed for 2B. BU
bangs her out.

Coach at 1B asks for time and talks to partner, who then
calls me for meet. After a brief discussion, I award R1
1B. My reasoning is that because of the matter in which
my partner yelled "take two" without adding prefix "Pard,
take two", player and coach thought he was advancing R1
because ball might have gone into dead ball terrority.

I only changed the call when partner said he also yelled
"no, no, no" adding more confussion. By his actions I
felt that we as umpires, had confussed the issue.

Did I make the correct call? I thought so at the time.

glen
I have to compliment your sense of fairness, especially if these were young players, for what was essentially umpire obstruction. OTOH, I could also support telling the coach that he goofed and umpire communication is not for him during a live ball.
I don't get the obstacle for the BU getting to 2nd. If R1 is headed there and F3 is chasing the ball, who is in the way? Possibly F4, but that is only one person coming from an angle.
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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 02:22pm
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Re: Runner in Jeopardy?

Quote:
Originally posted by TexBlue
Wow, this is one of those " Glad it waasn't me" situations. Maybe this is one of those where you're right and wrong no matter what you do. If you think your partner put the runner in jeopardy, prabably the right call. However, the other side of the argument is an umpire cannot award bases in a live ball situation and the coach shoulda known that also. I'll tell a runner to go to 2nd after I call a "Dead Ball" or " Illegal Pitch. " But you can't tell her to go to 2nd during a live ball.

I probably would have stuck with the out call, but that doesn't mean I would be right.

I was calling the plate in a slow pitch game, the trailing runner gets in a rundown between 2nd and 3rd. I went to 3rd yelling all the way " I got three! I got three!" Unfortunately, the crowd was so loud, no one heard me but the 3rd base coach. My partner knew I shoulda been there and looked to be sure, so he knew I was helping. He never heard me yell, and I ain't quiet on the the field. Anyway, I sold her out on the tag and called time. I turned around and the coach was already in my face, yelling. After I recovered and decided to leave him in the game, I finally understood that he was upset because he thought I had called time during the rundown. I never did. The misunderstanding had no bearing on the actions of the runner or defense. Finally, my partner came up and explained that what the coach heard was me yelling " I got three!" Once he understood this, it was a much calmer discussion. But in this situation, no one thought I was awarding anything or calling time except him. No one else could hear because both stands were yelling real loud. No matter what the misunderstanding was, the out was gonna stand in this situation. It was one of those close youth games you love to be in, just because it's competitive and fun.

Gonna be interesting to see the discussion on this your situation!!!!!!!
As I said "umpire communication is not for him during a live ball". No reason for a complaint. Do most of you think it helps to yell your partner's name; not just "I have 3rd" or whatever? As to "Once he understood this, it was a much calmer discussion" - what about?
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Old Fri Aug 15, 2003, 02:31pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
... snip .. Bases loaded, one out. Short pop to RC field. R3 has a good angle and sees the ball is going to drop and proceeds to 2B while the other runners are holding to see if the ball is caught. He rounds 2B only to see R2 returning to 2B, puts his hands out to push him back towards 3B and then returns to 2B.

After a couple of seconds while F4, F9 & F10 stand around deciding who is going to pick up the ball and return it to the infield, F6 takes a short-hop throw to 2B. R3 is just standing on the base. F6 literally backs into him and turns toward 3B wrapping around R3 and never really tagging him with the glove or ball. He sees the confusion and 3B and fires the ball in that direction. Only problem was, F5 was just as confused as the runners and the ball goes out of play.

Of course, this was all my fault. Why? Glad you asked!

The defense blamed me because I made no call at 2B. I didn't feel there was a play since the runner had been standing there and was never tagged, but only backed into. They INSISTED that I'm required to make a call anytime a defender touches a runner. I tried to explain that umpires make a call when there is a play. If it is obvious there is no play, why would I add to any of the already existing confusion making a totally unnecessary call.

Then came the next argument that, ...STANDBY FOR NEW MYTH OF SOFTBALL..., anytime a runner touches the runner in front of him, he is out.

News to me. I must have missed that rules change. Of course, my partner and I became idiots and the worst umpires in the world. That's right, we cost that team the game. Forget the fact the the #1 seed is about to get 12-runned by the #8 seed for the league championship as I'm sure they don't think the 16+ walks and multiple errors had anything to do with their downfall.

[/B]
Are you saying no one complained that R3 interfered or that he only gets one base on an infield throw? These guys know the rules after all!

Besides, the multiple errors you mentioned were just scorekeeping mistakes.
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