To T or not to T; that is the question?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

Was it on here that I read someone advising not to start the game until the AD took care of this? We had to carry athletic tape in our jackets early in the season for this reason but most have some sort of semi-permanent demarcation now.

Just depends on where you are, I guess. In Oregon, we were supposed to mark the coaching box if it wasn't already marked. Here in Texas, not so strict. Do what you're told to do and enforce how you're told to enforce.

[Rich]

All of our boxes are marked. If they are not, the home coach is seatbelted.

I'm still amazed that I have at least one partner a year that walks the coach from one end of the box to the other and points to the lines -- I'm sure that gives a great first impression: "Here's your cage. Stay in it."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I tend to agree with Adam. If this is clearly a miscommunication by the coach, I'm going to try to avoid a T (unless, of course, he does interfere with the play). I would also look at the spirit of the rule. I know this isn't a directly applicable analogy, but I liken it to the kid who takes the ball out of bounds after his team scores, but is clearly confused on the play. I'm not giving one there unless I have to, and I'm not giving one here unless I have to.

Originally Posted by Dad

You're going to have to if it's the second delay-of-game warning. The spirit of the rule is stay in your bloody coaching box. They didn't write the box rule for us to determine when we should and shouldn't enforce it.
There's no inadvertent whistle. No one said TO. No player thinks there is a TO. There's zero confusion for me to give this coach any room to leave the coaching box.

That's not you responding to a post by stating a 2nd DOG warning and T is needed for this situation?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That's not you responding to a post by stating a 2nd DOG warning and T is needed for this situation?

I know this isn't a directly applicable analogy, but I liken it to the kid who takes the ball out of bounds after his team scores, but is clearly confused on the play. I'm not giving one there unless I have to, and I'm not giving one here unless I have to.

If you're referring to the OP, not in the slightest.

The bold section was what I originally responded to from Frezer. My point is by rule the confused kid doesn't get a technical unless it's the 2nd DOG in the game. At which point you're forced to give a technical -- doesn't matter if you don't want to give it to him or not. (This part is only about the case book play)

The rules don't say anything about giving a coach a warning. Therefore, a T is the only option if he runs out of the box. I don't think it's a good idea to teach officials to put aside rules because they judged spirit and intent. Top officials in most associations can make this call no problem, but on average officials will screw it up and get into trouble.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Dad

Top officials in most associations can make this call no problem, but on average officials will screw it up and get into trouble.

This is absurd. You don't know what top officials do in any other place than where you've officiated.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Smitty

This is absurd. You don't know what top officials do in any other place than where you've officiated.

I do, but apparently you may not.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Dad

The rules don't say anything about giving a coach a warning.

Here's a shocker for you - we also give coaches official warnings. Put 'em in the book and everything.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Here's a shocker for you - we also give coaches official warnings. Put 'em in the book and everything.

Why would this be a shocker? Lots of associations do this.

I'm only playing the rule side of the conversation. In this scenario I think he ran too far onto the court for me to give a warning. Plenty of great officials who would pass on a T and it'd be a good decision; it's just not one I'm likely to make.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Here's a shocker for you - we also give coaches official warnings. Put 'em in the book and everything.

I was sitting at a table (no visiting scorer) watching a game after mine (holiday tournament) when an official did this. I did everything I could to keep my eyes from visibly and audibly rolling.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Correct - they do not mark the coaching box.

I never saw one in Houston either.

Official warnings in the book was not a universal practice though. Some officials did them but many did not.

Oh and who could forget sounding your whistle before entering the court during pre-game?

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by Smitty

2. Now you're changing the situation, and I said very clearly what my response was to the original situation.

That's exactly what I'm doing. My guess is that you would apply the rule as stated in the book in the second situation. It's interesting how some officials cherry pick rules and make justifications to applying/not applying them....

If I'm correct, in that you would give a T to a player that had that same brain fart as the coach had, and took off his jersey in the confines of the court, then in my opinion, your line of reasoning for giving the coach a pass falls short of being consistent.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

That's exactly what I'm doing. My guess is that you would apply the rule as stated in the book in the second situation. It's interesting how some officials cherry pick rules and make justifications to applying/not applying them....

If I'm correct, in that you would give a T to a player that had that same brain fart as the coach had, and took off his jersey in the confines of the court, then in my opinion, your line of reasoning for giving the coach a pass falls short of being consistent.

It depends. If a kid takes his shirt off in anger or disgust - easy decision. If a kid is told they need to take off an illegal undershirt and was not told to leave the confines of the court, I might let it go. Whenever I tell a kid they need to take off an undershirt, I also tell them to go into the hallway.

Things are not black and white - there are shades of grey, and those shades are darker or lighter depending on where you live. I've never been in a place that expects me to do things by the letter of the book. But if I ever am in that place, I will do as they expect. I never gave warnings or blew my whistle when we came onto the court before I moved to Texas. But that's what they do here, so am I going to be a pioneer and do what you think I should do instead? No. That would be detrimental to my officiating career.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was sitting at a table (no visiting scorer) watching a game after mine (holiday tournament) when an official did this. I did everything I could to keep my eyes from visibly and audibly rolling.

The first time I saw someone give an "official warning" after I moved here, I thought they were joking.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Oh and who forget sounding your whistle before entering the court during pre-game?

I do this for more competitive boys varsity games when there may be an issue of pregame dunking.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

The first time I saw someone give an "official warning" after I moved here, I thought they were joking.

I have a supervisor or 2 who insist on this procedure.