Spin move

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.

Coach A, who has been chirping much of the first half, loudly objects, "IT'S A SPIN MOVE!!!," as if that allows the change of the pivot foot. He continues with, "This game is too fast for you!" (It's a freshmen boys' game.) Partner T's up Coach A.

While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people?

I am confused on what you are trying to say. You can do a lot of things when you lift your pivot.....is that your point?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I am confused on what you are trying to say. You can do a lot of things when you lift your pivot.....is that your point?

Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?

Because you can?

It sounds like you need to separate the term "pivot foot" and the act of "pivoting" in your own mind. They aren't necessarily related.

[Camron Rust]

I've seen many officials think it is a pivot to lift a foot and swing it around before it touches. As a result, I hear calls for travels and see a few officials call travels when it is not (yet). It isn't a pivot until the lifted foot touches again.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It isn't a pivot until the lifted foot touches again.

I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?

4-travel contains multiple references to "the pivot foot may be lifted but not returned to the floor (before a pass or shot)."

Sorry, I don't have the books here to give an exact cite.

Aldo, when the rule says "traveling is moving the pivot foot" "move" means step or slide -- id doesn't mean "wave around in the air."

[BryanV21]

Some are making it more complicated than it needs to be. Actually, it's not complicated.

1. Find the pivot foot, keeping in mind there is only one pivot foot There's no such thing as the "first" and "second" pivot foot (at least not in high school).

2. If the pivot foot is lifted, the player is allowed to shoot or pass the ball. They can not start a dribble or return the pivot foot to the floor (if so, a travel violation has occurred).

That's it. The way I read the OP tells me there was no traveling violation. I don't care what the coach says, I only care what the rule book says.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?

Rule 4, Section 33:

A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball steps once, or more than once, in any direction with the same foot while the other foot, called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the floor.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?

see 4.44.3.a & 4.44.3.b

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?

because you can. the rule doesn't prohibit this, the rule prohibits the original pivot foot from being returned to the floor before the ball is passed or shot.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?

If you are using "pivot" in the same manner as the NFHS definition in Rule 4, then you are correct that such action would be illegal.

If you simply mean to turn or twist on the non-pivot foot, then that is different and not illegal as long as the pivot foot doesn't return to the floor.