The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:19am
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Spin move

Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.

Coach A, who has been chirping much of the first half, loudly objects, "IT'S A SPIN MOVE!!!," as if that allows the change of the pivot foot. He continues with, "This game is too fast for you!" (It's a freshmen boys' game.) Partner T's up Coach A.

While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people?
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.

Coach A, who has been chirping much of the first half, loudly objects, "IT'S A SPIN MOVE!!!," as if that allows the change of the pivot foot. He continues with, "This game is too fast for you!" (It's a freshmen boys' game.) Partner T's up Coach A.

While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people?
I am confused on what you are trying to say. You can do a lot of things when you lift your pivot.....is that your point?
__________________
"They don't play the game because we show up to officiate it"
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.

Coach A, who has been chirping much of the first half, loudly objects, "IT'S A SPIN MOVE!!!," as if that allows the change of the pivot foot. He continues with, "This game is too fast for you!" (It's a freshmen boys' game.) Partner T's up Coach A.

While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people?
Assuming the lifting of the pivot foot isn't followed by a dribble, you can do whatever you want with it

Assuming you accurately described the play, I'm thinking the call was missed.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:54am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: West Orange, NJ
Posts: 2,583
Maybe I'm missing something but the way this is described (remove the spin part of things): the dribble ended with the pivot foot on the floor, the other foot came down, the pivot foot was lifted but never came down again...that's legal.

As to this comment...

Quote:
While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot,"
...if the rule book doesn't say a player can't do it, why can't they?
__________________
"Everyone has a purpose in life, even if it's only to serve as a bad example."
"If Opportunity knocks and he's not home, Opportunity waits..."
"Don't you have to be stupid somewhere else?" "Not until 4."
"The NCAA created this mess, so let them live with it." (JRutledge)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:55am
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by packersowner View Post
I am confused on what you are trying to say. You can do a lot of things when you lift your pivot.....is that your point?
Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 01:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?
Because you can?

It sounds like you need to separate the term "pivot foot" and the act of "pivoting" in your own mind. They aren't necessarily related.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 01:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
I've seen many officials think it is a pivot to lift a foot and swing it around before it touches. As a result, I hear calls for travels and see a few officials call travels when it is not (yet). It isn't a pivot until the lifted foot touches again.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 08:42am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Okay, to be more clear, why do people think you can pivot on a non-pivot foot?
because you can. the rule doesn't prohibit this, the rule prohibits the original pivot foot from being returned to the floor before the ball is passed or shot.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 08:43am
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
It isn't a pivot until the lifted foot touches again.
I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 09:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,015
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?
4-travel contains multiple references to "the pivot foot may be lifted but not returned to the floor (before a pass or shot)."

Sorry, I don't have the books here to give an exact cite.

Aldo, when the rule says "traveling is moving the pivot foot" "move" means step or slide -- id doesn't mean "wave around in the air."
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 12:45pm
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,517
Some are making it more complicated than it needs to be. Actually, it's not complicated.

1. Find the pivot foot, keeping in mind there is only one pivot foot There's no such thing as the "first" and "second" pivot foot (at least not in high school).

2. If the pivot foot is lifted, the player is allowed to shoot or pass the ball. They can not start a dribble or return the pivot foot to the floor (if so, a travel violation has occurred).

That's it. The way I read the OP tells me there was no traveling violation. I don't care what the coach says, I only care what the rule book says.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth- For Now
Posts: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Second quarter. A-1 dribbles near the division line, guarded by B-2. Instead of driving past B-2, A-1 attempts this spin move: gather while pivoting on pivot foot, pivots on non-pivot foot, pass. Partner calls the travel.
Why does it matter what he did with his "non-pivot foot." Add me to the group that does not think what is descibed here is a travel.

Quote:
While NFHS 4-44 doesn't specifically say, "you can't pivot on a non-pivot foot," I fail to see how people miss this point. The limits are clear. Is it the belief of some that, as long as the pivot foot doesn't come down, you can do what you want with the other foot? Or what else may be misleading people?
I'm confused. What point are people missing? What limits are you referencing as clear?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:36pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,931
Legal ...

Imagine a dribbler ending his dribble, and establishing a pivot foot. He picks up that pivot foot to pass, or to shoot, and while said pivot foot is in the air, decides to do neither. He just stands there with his nonpivot foot on the floor, and his pivot foot in the air, holding the ball. If not closely guarded, or not in the backcourt, or not in the lane, he can stand there, legally, like a statue, for up to seven minutes and fifty-nine seconds.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 03:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 678
I'm guessing the confusion on this issue is whether the non-pivot foot, while on the ground, and while the originally established pivot foot is in the air, can be rotated on the so-called "balls of the feet." This meets the non-basketball definition of pivot, but is confused with the basketball term "pivot foot." Seems to me this is a discussion that has been had on this forum before, I know I've had the talk with others in my area. Am I correct in assuming this is where your confusion is bainsey?
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 05:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
I'm assuming you mean, "until the lifted pivot foot touches again." If I assume correctly, can you give me a rule citation?

Rule 4, Section 33:
Quote:
A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball steps once, or more than once, in any direction with the same foot while the other foot, called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the floor.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
spin move to second MRD Baseball 15 Fri Jul 10, 2015 02:41pm
Spin Move..Continuation? The_Rookie Basketball 17 Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:17pm
The Spin Move Bad Zebra Basketball 40 Wed Jan 27, 2010 01:41am
Spin move just another ref Basketball 9 Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:20am
Spin move or travel? BktBallRef Basketball 17 Mon Jan 15, 2001 09:42pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1