Assistant chirping from stands

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Rich

Huh?

The longer a speech, the less competent I assume an official is. I would assume any coach with half a brain would think exactly the same.

My pregame with captains is 11 seconds. My greeting to the head coach is a "walk-by." They know why I'm there and by the time they get that position they don't need a speech from an official.

Rich,

Our state REQUIRES a pregame meeting, and that our state associations' sportsmanship message is read verbatim, at every level (JH thru Varsity HS). We then have the option to go over small items like timeouts, substitutions, speaking captains, coaching boxes, and anything special about the gym.

sometimes i forget that this forum is "outside of my state" so, the OP might choose to disregard that part of my post, depending on how his state handles that sort of stuff.

also, i didn't say longer....i said thorough.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tnolan

Rich,

Our state REQUIRES a pregame meeting, and that our state associations' sportsmanship message is read verbatim, at every level (JH thru Varsity HS). We then have the option to go over small items like timeouts, substitutions, speaking captains, coaching boxes, and anything special about the gym.

sometimes i forget that this forum is "outside of my state" so, the OP might choose to disregard that part of my post, depending on how his state handles that sort of stuff.

also, i didn't say longer....i said thorough.

I'd do what's required and not a bit more.

But if I tried to cover anything else, I'd expect my partners to jump in and save me from myself.

I was a PIAA official from 1987 through 1994. Worked my first varsity game and 3-person game there. I grew up and went to college in PA. They still make officials wear that goofy keystone patch on their sleeve?

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd do what's required and not a bit more.

But if I tried to cover anything else, I'd expect my partners to jump in and save me from myself.

I was a PIAA official from 1987 through 1994. Worked my first varsity game and 3-person game there. I grew up and went to college in PA. They still make officials wear that goofy keystone patch on their sleeve?

which is fine. and many guys in PIAA do the same.
personally, i find it a good time to go over a few items for "preventative officiating". but by no means am i reciting the rule book out there! so, to each their own. and hopefully the OP takes both of our advice and finds what suits him the best.

oh nice! yep, we're still "patched"
yeah, a lot has changed since '94.....

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Adam

In that case, he's likely just a spectator. As a coach, he is required to be on the bench. As a fan he gets a little leeway. As a coach in the stands, he can still be held to a higher standard and simply removed from the gym.

One possible way to address it is to ask the JV HC if the guy behind the bench is an AC for this game. If he answers in the affirmative, remind him he needs to be on the bench and warn him that the comments need to cease. If he says no, feel free to go to game management and have the loudmouthed fan removed.

This was my thought as well. It can be a slippery slope when you T up someone not on the bench when you really don't know their role.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by tnolan

which is fine. and many guys in PIAA do the same.
personally, i find it a good time to go over a few items for "preventative officiating". but by no means am i reciting the rule book out there! so, to each their own. and hopefully the OP takes both of our advice and finds what suits him the best.

oh nice! yep, we're still "patched"
yeah, a lot has changed since '94.....

If there's one thing I like a lot about my state is that we don't wear patches in any sport. Baseball, basketball, football -- buy a regular shirt from any supplier and you're ready to go.

Back to the OP:

I'd find out what the role of the jackass behind the bench was before I started whacking. I don't whack spectators.

The coach closing ground after I told him to go back would be pretty automatic from me. One thing I've learned over the years is that once a coach comes onto the floor to argue, there's really nobody who can argue a technical foul at that point. I'm going to sit him down and he likely won't be a problem from that point forward.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by frezer11

To each his own, but I'm not sure I'd call this "Ridiculous." If I can prevent a problem by showing the HC enough respect to give him a chance to rectify the scenario, then I think that's good game management. Again, as others have said, there are some things that an AC can say that is automatic, no need to warn a coach, but from the description in the OP, this certainly doesn't seem like the case to me.

"You HAVE to give a warning to the HC" is ridiculous, but if you're able to, why not?

Never said you shouldn't give a warning, or that using a quick word to the HC was not good game management. Was simply responding to another poster who took the OP to task for not issuing a warning first. Like I said, all coaches on that bench know what they can and cannot do - if one of those coaches chooses to be a PITA, then they know what the result will be. Giving someone a low evaluation because they didn't warn an AC that was running his/her mouth is ridiculous.

[UNIgiantslayers]

I'd rather have honesty in here and be able to fix it in the future in case this should ever arise in front of an evaluator. I appreciate both sides of the debate.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I meant to tell the HC to keep him under control since he's a coach but it slipped my mind. This could've solved a headache. Minus mind slippage, you handled everything fine

He says "Oh you guys are just missing all kinds of stuff, sir." So I put air in the whistle and whack him. Here I would've said something to the HC. The person running their mouth may have just been a dad who wants to sit behind the bench and chirp. Who knows, coach may have been waiting for a reason to get the annoying guy away from his team. Later facts change this, but at the time I don't know if you knew it was the AC.

He starts out onto the court saying "Wait a minute, you need to pay attention to the game and ignore what's going on over here." Lol

After the game right after we observe the handshakes, the assistant who got the first T walks up and says "Can I ask you guys a question?" and I didn't really want to. Then don't, you handled this great. Some officials like to blab to coaches and others don't. Done correctly there's nothing wrong with either method.

I feel like I catch more crap from coaches because I look young (I'm 31 but look like I'm maybe 22) and it wears me out. Maybe it's in my head, but I don't see the older guys on my crew have coaches push them as much it seems like they try to get away with with me. Make up for it with how you carry yourself and quality articulation.

My text = bold

Partner quality has some serious volatility.

[BatteryPowered]

Only once have I given a JV assistant (read V head coach) some slack. I had called a couple of his games that season already and knew him fairly well because of other things I was doing for the school district.

Middle of the 3rd quarter (he had been saying a few things but not being a pest) we have a full TO. I am standing at the block and he slowly walks toward me. Now, I know he just wants a question answered because he just asked it and I didn't have an opportunity to speak with him. However, when he got to me (before he had a chance to speak) I said "Coach, in this game you're an assistant. Don't say anything and go back to the bench." He just put his head down and returned from whence he came. After the game he stopped me and said (smiling) "You know, you could have just given me a stop sign and saved me some steps." I told him "And you know better than to come out onto the floor like that." He just looked at me strangely and said "Point taken"...then added "That's what I like about you...you know how to get you point across very clearly." Then we discussed his question and he was came to the realization that he was wrong...even admitted it (I refrained from saying "Duh" ).

Sadly, he has retired...good coach, very fair and a great man.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tnolan

Rich,

Our state REQUIRES a pregame meeting, and that our state associations' sportsmanship message is read verbatim, at every level (JH thru Varsity HS). We then have the option to go over small items like timeouts, substitutions, speaking captains, coaching boxes, and anything special about the gym.

sometimes i forget that this forum is "outside of my state" so, the OP might choose to disregard that part of my post, depending on how his state handles that sort of stuff.

also, i didn't say longer....i said thorough.

We're required to address sportsmanship, so I tell the players to handle their knuckleheads. Like Rich, I only do what's required because they're not listening.

With coaches, I mention sportsmanship because I have to. I ask them that stupid "legally equipped" question because I have to. I mention timeouts because that's something I've actually found helps; it's anecdotal and subject to change though. My captains meeting takes about ten seconds, and my coach's meeting takes about 15.

They aren't impressed by your speech, regardless of how thorough or articulate you are. They want that meeting over more than you do, and a thorough speech just keeps them away from their kids.

do what's expected in your area, but I'm with Rich, at the very least the advice to use your pregame speech as a way of impressing the coaches is not sound. IMO of course.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

We're required to address sportsmanship, so I tell the players to handle their knuckleheads. Like Rich, I only do what's required because they're not listening.

To say they do not listen is overstated. They might not listen for long, but I believe they listen. I just think we have to keep is short and sweet. We also have to give a sportsmanship talk, but nothing word for word. Some people have the right energy or the right attitude and they will control that meeting for the few seconds it lasts.

Originally Posted by Adam

With coaches, I mention sportsmanship because I have to. I ask them that stupid "legally equipped" question because I have to. I mention timeouts because that's something I've actually found helps; it's anecdotal and subject to change though. My captains meeting takes about ten seconds, and my coach's meeting takes about 15.

I personally do not like to even talk about timeouts as I think coaches know the rule and know they have to tell us. That might have been a concern in the first couple years of the rule, but now this is not an issue. They do it in college and the rule is basically the same and coaches are not apart of that meeting at all in college.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

To say they do not listen is overstated. They might not listen for long, but I believe they listen. I just think we have to keep is short and sweet. We also have to give a sportsmanship talk, but nothing word for word. Some people have the right energy or the right attitude and they will control that meeting for the few seconds it lasts.



I personally do not like to even talk about timeouts as I think coaches know the rule and know they have to tell us. That might have been a concern in the first couple years of the rule, but now this is not an issue. They do it in college and the rule is basically the same and coaches are not apart of that meeting at all in college.

Peace

No, I don't do that part anymore. If they aren't telling me, I'll grab their ear after the TO and request they let us know ASAP so we're not guessing.

I mention to have the kids out and ready by the 2nd horn. Frankly, we shouldn't have to and most of them already know the rule, but I've found anecdotally that it helps keep the game moving. Some still stall, but it seems to have helped with a few.

Still subject to change, though.

[refinks]

Originally Posted by Rich

Huh?

The longer a speech, the less competent I assume an official is. I would assume any coach with half a brain would think exactly the same.

My pregame with captains is 11 seconds. My greeting to the head coach is a "walk-by." They know why I'm there and by the time they get that position they don't need a speech from an official.

My captain/coaches pregame seems to vary, even though I try to keep it the same every time.

I'll quickly tell captains to be good leaders on and off the court and help us out with any problem teammates, sometimes I'll throw in a joke about not hanging on the rim if they dunk, then I let them go.

Since my state is a single meeting with the coaches and captains, I then ask the coaches the mandatory questions (properly equipped, good sportsmanship) and of course they always answer with a yes or "They better be", then I'll remind them of the coaching box and tell them to get their huddles wrapped up on the first horn so we can get going on the second horn. I'll ask them if they have any questions and wish them luck. Usually takes about a minute, tops.

I've worked with several guys that feel like they need to lay out the court, the boundary line colors, the POE, how we're gonna call it, and all that. Those pregames suck and usually drag. Most of the time the captains aren't paying attention anyways, so why keep them there longer than necessary.

[deecee]

Rich I think my captains meeting may be shorter than yours .

All I say is I expect good sportsmanship, then ask if they have any questions (always a NO), then ask my partner if they have anything to add.

Half the time they do, and its usually the following 2 things

1. who's the speaking captain (I just don't understand this)
2. They reiterate sportsmanship and something about TO's

The last time my meeting was a bit longer was during a rivalry game where the previous game had an altercation. I reminded the teams to keep their cool and should things escalate to make sure their benches stay put. Same was said to the coaches.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I ran into a coach at a gas station the next morning after I T'ed him up. I was pumped to see him.

And how did it go?