Assistant chirping from stands

[UNIgiantslayers]

I've been turning this one over in my mind since last night, so I thought I'd post it here and see what you guys think.

I had an open night last night because I ran a marathon a week ago so I didn't schedule anything for this week. I was feeling recovered for the most part so I took a JV double header that a school close by needed someone for. JV girls games are just brutal.

In the boys game, a guy keeps chirping about calls from behind the bench. No big deal, I figured it was a fan so whatever. At halftime I notice him coming out of the locker room with the team. I meant to tell the HC to keep him under control since he's a coach but it slipped my mind. 4th quarter, about 6 min left in the game. He says "Oh you guys are just missing all kinds of stuff, sir." So I put air in the whistle and whack him. As I'm reporting the foul, the HC wants to know what the deal is. I said "Coach, I'm not going to have your assistant chirping at us anymore." He starts out onto the court saying "Wait a minute, you need to pay attention to the game and ignore what's going on over here." He's a pretty big guy (probably 6'3" or so and 275) and I'm not (5'9" 150), and he is right in my face on the court. I tell him "Coach, you're going to want to go back to the bench," and he walks (EDITED TO ADD: walks even closer to me) so that we are maybe 5" apart. I whack him and walk away.

I was working with a partner who I'd never worked with before and who told me before the game this was his first year back since the 90s (he quit when his kids started playing). If I were him, I would have come over and offered support/try to take over to get the calling official out of the situation, but he just stood at the baseline ready to administer the FT.

After the game right after we observe the handshakes, the assistant who got the first T walks up and says "Can I ask you guys a question?" and I didn't really want to, but my partner said yeah. So I stand there for a second and he first apologizes then he starts questioning the T. I just said "I'm not going to discuss that with you. If you're not the head coach, keep your mouth shut on the bench," and I walked away. My partner stood there and talked to him for a few minutes. He said the guy thought he was okay to say what he wanted because he ended with "sir."

Here are my questions:
1. Were both T's justified?
2. What could/should I have done differently to prevent the 2nd T?
3. Should I have mentioned my issue to the other official after the game? I'll probably never work with him again so I didn't say anything.
4. I was a bit annoyed that my partner stood there with him because it sort of made me look like a jerk. I didn't feel like I needed to justify it to him and if he couldn't figure it out from what I said, he's an idiot. I found out later he's the Varsity HC. Should I have stayed and given him a better explanation?

I feel like I catch more crap from coaches because I look young (I'm 31 but look like I'm maybe 22) and it wears me out. Maybe it's in my head, but I don't see the older guys on my crew have coaches push them as much it seems like they try to get away with with me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

...I ran a marathon a week ago...

Quit bragging.

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

...
Here are my questions:
1. Were both T's justified?
2. What could/should I have done differently to prevent the 2nd T?
3. Should I have mentioned my issue to the other official after the game? I'll probably never work with him again so I didn't say anything.
4. I was a bit annoyed that my partner stood there with him because it sort of made me look like a jerk. I didn't feel like I needed to justify it to him and if he couldn't figure it out from what I said, he's an idiot. I found out later he's the Varsity HC. Should I have stayed and given him a better explanation?

1) Yes
2) Nothing
3) If you work with him again, bring it up
4) You're not the one who looks like a jerk. Never stick around to explain things to a coach. If he wants a conversation, tell him which sports bar you frequent and he can buy you a beer.

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

... I look young (I'm 31 but look like I'm maybe 22) and it wears me out. ...

Quit bragging.

"Wait a minute, you need to pay attention to the game and ignore what's going on over here."

I abso-f**king-lutely hate this line from coaches. Tempted to tell them to pay attention to coaching and quit trying to officiate. That line from a coach ends any further question-answering from me for the rest of the game.

[deecee]

1. Usually before I T up an assistant I do warn the HC (unless the AC is so out of line).
2. You ask the coach to go back to his bench, he then complies, and you then T him up. Not good. Either T him up or walk him back. Usually if a coach has been well behaved and his advance on the court isn't egregious and rude I walk him/her back the first time and make it clear next time it wont be tolerated.
3. After a game if a coach is reasonable and has a question (heck even during the game) I will chat with them. Once it turns to them talking at me I just walk away.
4. If you want to move up you have to be able to communicate. Not saying you don't have to issue T's but you need to be able to communicate with coaches and players. It's not a necessity per se, but it's pretty much expected so to speak.

I personally think the "knight in shining armor" is a stupid approach. We are adults and we can deal with our issues. You called a T, report it, go opposite table. I think it looks worse when my partner is dealing with a coach face to face and then I come in and tell my partner that I will take it from here. It's one thing if you report and move yourself to a different location and then the coach continues and your partner is in a position to address the coach but doesn't.

I also personally would rip into a partner, but then again we pregame this, that if I am dealing with a coach, I do not need "rescuing".

Overall from how you described things I would rate how you handled things a C, especially considering this is a JV game. In a varsity game this would be a D/F.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by deecee

2. You ask the coach to go back to his bench, he then complies, and you then T him up. Not good. Either T him up or walk him back. Usually if a coach has been well behaved and his advance on the court isn't egregious and rude I walk him/her back the first time and make it clear next time it wont be tolerated.

No, he got closer to me. If I wouldn't have backed up, we would have been chest to large belly. Sorry I wasn't clear on that, I fixed it in the OP.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

No, he got closer to me. If I wouldn't have backed up, we would have been chest to large belly. Sorry I wasn't clear on that, I fixed it in the OP.

In that case, perfectly justified.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by deecee

Overall from how you described things I would rate how you handled things a C, especially considering this is a JV game. In a varsity game this would be a D/F.

Wow. This is a bit harsh. I don't see evidence of any major communication mistakes...

[deecee]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Wow. This is a bit harsh. I don't see evidence of any major communication mistakes...

That would change a bit considering the new information to B- for JV and C- for V.

But it's really only on this small incident. The rest of the game could have been great and the overall score could well be B+/A-.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by deecee

That would change a bit considering the new information to B- for JV and C- for V.

But it's really only on this small incident. The rest of the game could have been great and the overall score could well be B+/A-.

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

My initial response, as well as what others have said. Ting up an assistant without at least giving the HC an opportunity to deal with his/her bench is one thing first off. The assistant didn't say something that was so T worthy that a quick "coach please keep your bench in order" wouldn't have solved or setup the easy T later.

With the HC, "please get back to your bench I'll come to you" or "I heard you coach, lets move on." and then you report and leave. If he continues towards you easy T (which is what happened). In all honesty what you did here with the HC wasn't that bad, he earned his T. But the bigger point is you could have possibly avoided 2 T's with a "coach please keep your bench in order" type of comment.

After a game if a coach approaches me, and this works for me so Im not saying you have to adopt it, and has a genuine question about WHY I called something I have no problem discussing with them. The operative word is discussing. NOT them talking at me.

I also would stay away from saying things like "keep your mouth shut on the bench." to them. They are adults, even though they may not act like it, and we can treat them like adults.

I will also preface this with the fact that in my last 2 games I DID NOT give T's to HC's that were deserved and it has been chewing at me. So maybe fire away and clear the bodies later, what do I know?

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

Ignore his evaluation.

You handled this just fine. The whole notion that you have to give a warning to the HC to control his bench before calling a T on that bench is ridiculous. Every coach knows the role of the Assistants. If they want to step out of that role, they get what they earn.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

How could I handle it in the future to be an A?

Might want to warn the HC that his ASSistant is about to buy him a seat for the remainder of the night.

[ballgame99]

So no warning to the HC to keep his bench under control? Obviously if the assistant is really out of line that isn't necessary, but just from my reading of your post it sounds like the bench T may have been a bit quick. Hard to tell context without being there. And the T on the HC is hard to tell just from your description. If you felt like he was physically intimidating you and being aggressive toward you, the T sounds like it would have been warranted when he is in your face. Edit: I read the 5" as 5'. Yeah if he is in your face like that you have no choice. Although like deecee said, you could have moved away from that bench after the first T, but sometimes that just isn't possible.

And as long as the guy was apologizing and not being confrontational after the game, I feel like it would be good form to talk to the guy through your thinking. Although where I'm from we don't stick around to watch handshakes and have too many postgame discussions with coaches.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

....

And as long as the guy was apologizing and not being confrontational after the game, I feel like it would be good form to talk to the guy through your thinking. ....

I'm not sticking around for conversations. They go just like UNI described: "first apologizes then he starts questioning the T".

I was serious about my sports bar remark. If he wants to talk, then do it away from the venue as 2 individuals having a casual conversation. Funny thing is, I've bumped into plenty of coaches out and about and never once has any of them discussed anything related to games I've worked or anything about officiating in their games. I've even bumped into a coach whom I had T'd up and he didn't even recognize me. Coaches know full well why they get T's. We don't need to stick around to explain to them why.

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I'm not sticking around for conversations. They go just like UNI described: "first apologizes then he starts questioning the T".

I was serious about my sports bar remark. If he wants to talk, then do it away from the venue as 2 individuals having a casual conversation. Funny thing is, I've bumped into plenty of coaches out and about and never once has any of them discussed anything related to games I've worked or anything about officiating in their games. I've even bumped into a coach whom I had T'd up and he didn't even recognize me. Coaches know full well why they get T's. We don't need to stick around to explain to them why.

I ran into a coach at a gas station the next morning after I T'ed him up. I was pumped to see him.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers

I ran into a coach at a gas station the next morning after I T'ed him up. I was pumped to see him.

I see what you did there...