Coach appears to headbutt official

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You're right. On the drive in to work this morning I remembered what I had pondered back then. It was that he did not get selected for the final four for the first time in many years that season. Did not make it last year, either.

I apologize for the inaccurate statement.

As to the call, we'll agree to disagree, but at a camp the following summer we broke down the play and the mechanics ad nausea. It took a while for the clinicians to convince me, but eventually I came to the realization that it was a block. Certainly as close to a 50-50 call there can be, I will give you that. If Tony rotates sooner and has turned and is standing still when the contact occurs, I believe the call, charge or not, would have been more credible. That's my biggest takeaway.

But don't forget that my original point was that Tony handled the assessment of the technicals perfectly.


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I would like to know how they justified a block.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Please explain?

If someone behaves like this the police should be call and you should request action to be taken by local authorities. Maybe I should ask what part you want me to explain?

[BigT]

I wanted to ask you guys a question. If instead T pop his whistle and sent all the players/coaches to the bench, let L report his foul and then got the crew together to discuss the obvious T and then called it are they in a better position to handle the coach and players and then admin the T? I wonder if we are so used to report our calls we fail to maybe use a tool to deescalate things and be in a better position to handle the aftermath of that situation.

Because I am newer maybe this is a really bad idea. I am looking forward to you guys thoughts on this mini timeout, discuss, let people settle down then calling the T.

Again thanks in advance,

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Altor

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

decent point.
not sure if i agree or disagree with it though. obviously you can't know, but it does almost appear that way.

but a couple new tips to take away from it, is that Lead needs SLOW DOWN. he did a great job of making the call, fist in the air, immediately cancels the basket, and makes the proper PC mechanic. but he shouldn't have left his PCA until he knows for sure who he has the foul on. how is he able to process and properly assess the coach a T, when he doesn't even know who the foul is on?
had he had the number in his head already, he's looking directly at the table to report while coming up and meets that coach head on and then can enforce the T correctly. (hopefully)
report PC, report T, possibly quickly conference with crew to make sure they're all on the same page, go opposite to get away from the coach you just T'd up, shoot in the order in which they occurred and continue the game.

also worth noting, early in the video, the Lead also has the closely guarded count in the corner, which the Lead should never do.

[Adam]

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

My comments were in response to several posts in this thread not just yours, which I read just fine. Who is the one being defensive here? I'm relaxed and hope you are as well.

I took your verbiage in your post to be directed at me but fair enough. I've slept and backed off the ledge.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

So if it happens on YouTube, notoriety is enough punishment? If there is no video, then charges need to be pressed?

Would the philosophy apply if someone takes cuts in front of me at the supermarket and I knocked that person down in response?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

Exactly!!!

If there was a "like" or "love" button I would press it as it relates to this post.

Peace

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

Social responsibility. No-brainer.

If you feel for the coach, good for you. Almost no one else does and rightly so. He acted out in a way that isn't acceptable and just because you feel sorry for him doesn't mean the rest of the world should ignore laws.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

In the video I saw, he was at arms length before the coach lunged and head-butted him. I think smitty offered the most reasonable explanation for the proximity as it was. He was getting into the situation to diffuse it when the coach earned his T.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

He can shake hands and forgive after sentencing. Hell, he can even testify as a character witness in the sentencing hearing for all I care.

I understand it's his decision whether or not to press charges, but I think this is one of those rare cases where the situation is bigger than the parties involved. By filing charges, he would be making a statement for all of the officials in their area and beyond. That may sound grandiose, but I think it's true.

So yes, it's his choice, but it's a choice that affects us all in some way. Do I want the coach to suffer? No, but I want him to face a jury of his peers.