Coach appears to headbutt official

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's another view of the incident. The play leading up to it begins at 1:33:29 on the 2nd video on the page. The first video is a condensed version.

1-5: Pennsbury vs. Neshaminy on Livestream

(obviously I'm out of practice with embedding...)

Interesting....

The call that led to the T was wrong, IMO. The defender slid in late (after the shooter was airborne) and the contact was well off center (meaning there probably wouldn't have even been contact if not for the defender sliding in late.) Call should have been a block.

Either way, the response by the coach was entirely unacceptable.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Interesting....

The call that led to the T was wrong, IMO.

I hated having that same feeling as I watched the play since I don't want to blame the victim. But again, it doesn't excuse the actions of the head coach.

Meantime, there are things we can learn/discuss in terms of the crew's reaction. My first thought was I wished the L and the C got the T away from the scene of the crime (I know, it's an emotional situation so it's hard to think straight). The T could have stepped back and observed the benches while the L reported his PC and the C made sure the HC left the visual confines.

I was also a bit surprised the L didn't ring up the HC on his own. Three-point game or not, the guy came 5-10 feet onto the court to get in the L's face. It looked as though he may have thought about calling a T then changed his mind.

[grunewar]

By: Micah Peters | January 6, 2016

According to a local NBC affiliate, Police responded to a Tuesday night high school basketball game between Neshaminy and Pennsbury in Pennsylvania.

Philadelphia’s City of Basketball Love reports that in the final 30 seconds of the game, Neshaminy head coach Jerry Devine – upset with an offensive foul call on a layup that would’ve made it a 3-point game – argued with one of the officials, and then appeared to headbutt a second.

Devine has been the Varsity Boys head coach at Neshaminy for 10 years. Middletown Township Police who responded to the call, have not yet revealed if any charges brought against Devine.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Interesting....

The call that led to the T was wrong, IMO. The defender slid in late (after the shooter was airborne) and the contact was well off center (meaning there probably wouldn't have even been contact if not for the defender sliding in late.) Call should have been a block.

Either way, the response by the coach was entire unacceptable.

Camron:

I agree with you about the charging call. While I have no problem with the L making a call on this play, the C had the best look at the play and if there were (and I do not know if there was) a double whistle, the L should have let the C take the call.

Mark, Jr., and I had a similar situation last night in our 8th grade boys' game. I was L, opposite the Table, when A1 drove from above the FT extended but just on the opposite the Table of the side of the court. A1, while airborne, slammed into B1 who was standing in the middle of the FTL just in front of the Basket. We had a double whistle and while the contact was in my PCA I let Mark have the call because he had the best look of the whole play while I had to look through a group of players to see A1. To be honest, I had a charge by A1, but by letting Mark (the official who had the best look at the whole play) we got the call correct because it was a Block by B1.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I hope that official presses charges against the HC.

[Eastshire]

When we get an unexpected attack to our head, we jerk back. If that jerk puts our shoulders far enough behind our hips, we fall down. That's just how the human body works. So, no, he doesn't appear to "sell" the attack. He just reacts to it. To further this, he gets up immediately in the longer video.

The biggest mistake officials in all sports make (myself included) is staying within arms reach of people who are angry with us. For our own safety, we should be standing no closer than a couple of feet from anyone who is currently upset with us. Unfortunately, it's come to us having to consider our safety while we work.

I'm surprised they haven't fired the coach already.

[PAlbc]

I can assure you he won't be coaching, and completely agree with that.

With that being said the legal ramifications (and monetary) jump significantly between an intimidation move (acting like you are going to headbutt) and actually making contact. I hope you can understand that. No coach should ever respond to an official that way (and should rightly be removed from coaching) , but it's also not right for that same coach to get charged with assault if the official did simply "sell" or embellish contact that was or was not there.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

I can assure you he won't be coaching, and completely agree with that.

With that being said the legal ramifications (and monetary) jump significantly between an intimidation move (acting like you are going to headbutt) and actually making contact. I hope you can understand that. No coach should ever respond to an official that way (and should rightly be removed from coaching) , but it's also not right for that same coach to get charged with assault if the official did simply "sell" or embellish contact that was or was not there.

Physical contact is not needed for an assault charge. I know from personal experience as I had to go to court once to (successfully) defend myself against an assault charge. At no time was it every alleged that I made physical contact.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

I can assure you he won't be coaching, and completely agree with that.

With that being said the legal ramifications (and monetary) jump significantly between an intimidation move (acting like you are going to headbutt) and actually making contact. I hope you can understand that. No coach should ever respond to an official that way (and should rightly be removed from coaching) , but it's also not right for that same coach to get charged with assault if the official did simply "sell" or embellish contact that was or was not there.

Generally speaking (as some states use slightly different terms), if the coach did not make contact, he's guilty of assault. If he did make contact, he's guilty of battery.

Regardless, the official didn't sell or embellish anything. He simply reacted in the natural manner to a sudden attack to the head.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Generally speaking (as some states use slightly different terms), if the coach did not make contact, he's guilty of assault. If he did make contact, he's guilty of battery.

Regardless, the official didn't sell or embellish anything. He simply reacted in the natural manner to a sudden attack to the head.

If you look at the video on USA Today, which has a very different angle than the video posted in this thread, it sure looks like he makes contact.

[Smitty]

The USA Today video (different angle) which shows the head butt a bit more clearly is here: USA Today Article

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Smitty

If you look at the video on USA Today, which has a very different angle than the video posted in this thread, it sure looks like he makes contact.

He made contact chest-to-chest, which caused the official to fall. So if he ends up with a battery charge to go along with an assault charge, oh well for him.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's another view of the incident. The play leading up to it begins at 1:33:29 on the 2nd video on the page. The first video is a condensed version.

1-5: Pennsbury vs. Neshaminy on Livestream

(obviously I'm out of practice with embedding...)

Thanks! This is a much better video (for officials to learn from) as you state in your next post.

I agree with most here, that:
A) more than likely should have been a block call based on the secondary defenders' timing of LGP
B) C could probably make this call, but not from where he appeared to be in the video. maybe it's just the video, but it looks like he's a mile away! and instead of closing down, he tilts his head a little bit and never moves. so IMO, Lead has the better look here as center didn't put himself into position to make this call. at first i was afraid there would be a no call!
C) obviously, the coaches actions (contact or none) are ridiculously unacceptable

So here's more of my take on the sitch after seeing this entire thing play out....
IMO, I hate the knock the guy but....I know that Trail is just trying to help out, but I'm sorry. He needs to let the Lead live with his call and deal with an irate coach himself. Lead sold his call hard, so I can only assume that he 100% believed he was right. When the coach comes well out of his box to argue the call, and by book, warrants a T just for that, maybe after the Lead reports, he can calm him down back into his box and we can continue playing ball. In that situation, it depends on what he says exactly...but 99.99% of the time, I'm going to T him up as well. And maybe the Lead should have T'd him up quicker, and the Trail would not of had to get involved. Either way, I don't think this is the Trail's fight to enter.

With that being said, I'm still not sure if contact was made. And it's obvious that regardless of whether it was or not, the action of "chest/head pumping" or "faking" towards an official is an immediate ejection, for a player or coach. And then the coach waves his arm after the official falls down, as if to say, "pffft, i barely even touched you or didn't touch him at all, whatever" sort of gesture. completely uncalled for. I hope as many coaches see this video as officials and take some time to realize that they really need to be professional at all times.
For the officials sake, I hope that no contact was made and I hope that he is okay.

[Remington]

I know this is off topic, but did you hear the broadcasters in the second video in the link below? Go to approximately 1:33:30 and watch the play, the T, the contact and listen to the broadcasters.......

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Camron:

I agree with you about the charging call. While I have no problem with the L making a call on this play, the C had the best look at the play and if there were (and I do not know if there was) a double whistle, the L should have let the C take the call.

Mark, Jr., and I had a similar situation last night in our 8th grade boys' game. I was L, opposite the Table, when A1 drove from above the FT extended but just on the opposite the Table of the side of the court. A1, while airborne, slammed into B1 who was standing in the middle of the FTL just in front of the Basket. We had a double whistle and while the contact was in my PCA I let Mark have the call because he had the best look of the whole play while I had to look through a group of players to see A1. To be honest, I had a charge by A1, but by letting Mark (the official who had the best look at the whole play) we got the call correct because it was a Block by B1.

MTD, Sr.

P.S. I hope that official presses charges against the HC.

Secondary defender, play's in the lane. This belongs 100% to the L.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He made contact chest-to-chest, which caused the official to fall.

Without a better angle, this is what I think happened too. Between the official's reflexive jerking his head back and getting an extra "push" from the coach's belly, he fell down and got right back up. I didn't see any indication from the official that he got hit in the head (e.g. putting his hand to his face).

The coach still needs to go.