Coach appears to headbutt official

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by Rich

You know, I couldn't possibly give a crap about this.

Every play is a snowflake --I'm not going to kick the shit out of one just so it looks like we "call it the same at both ends."

I think the play before the head butt was a pretty obvious block. Let's say that the same play was incorrectly called a charge at the other end -- the whole notion that I should just kick one to high heaven in the name of consistency is just appalling to me.

I wasn't stating whether it was consistent or inconsistent, just that the same play happened minutes before this play and was called one way. It was not a situation where it was called on the other end differently. If I am coach though, and in my opinion have the same play in a row, one time a charge and one time a block, a coach is absolutely going to ask for consistency. Its the same reason officials will say, if its a foul in minute 1 its a foul in minute 31. Now that being said, maybe both calls were exactly correct, but I can guarantee you the coach won't see that way in the heat of the moment.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I wasn't stating whether it was consistent or inconsistent, just that the same play happened minutes before this play and was called one way. It was not a situation where it was called on the other end differently. If I am coach though, and in my opinion have the same play in a row, one time a charge and one time a block, a coach is absolutely going to ask for consistency. Its the same reason officials will say, if its a foul in minute 1 its a foul in minute 31. Now that being said, maybe both calls were exactly correct, but I can guarantee you the coach won't see that way in the heat of the moment.

No two plays are exactly alike. And, yes, I've said that to coaches before.

[deecee]

What about the guy in the third row? should he have changed his name to Steve? IOW @#%#$ that has nothing to do with crappy behavior that gets deflected for some unrelated set of events. ITS HS BASKETBALL.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Smitty

As long as we're all speculating, my thought was the T initially sprinted over to act as a buffer between the coach and the L because he didn't want the coach following the L all the way to the table. But I bet he heard something as he closed in that was T worthy and just ended up in a bad place when he felt the need to T him up. But who knows.

Dave,

This was my initial thought as well.....

[VaTerp]

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Its a shame that it has to be spelled out but not a single person here has tried to excuse the coach's behavior or deemed it acceptable in any shape or form. So I don't know why people keep repeating it as if anyone is arguing to the contrary.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations. Every single game I work I come away thinking of things I could have done differently to improve overall at this craft.

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

I also commented that its generally not good practice to step aggressively toward the coach while issuing a T as the Trail did in this situation. I stand by both of those opinions based on my experience as an official and specific situations that I have seen both escalated and diffused. Since apparently it needs to be said, this doesnt in any way excuse the coach's behavior, mitigate his culpability for his actions, or suggest that the official deserved to have what happened in any way whatsoever.

It is however my opinion of a possible takeaway from this situation.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Its a shame that it has to be spelled out but not a single person here has tried to excuse the coach's behavior or deemed it acceptable in any shape or form. So I don't know why people keep repeating it as if anyone is arguing to the contrary.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations. Every single game I work I come away thinking of things I could have done differently to improve overall at this craft.

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

I also commented that its generally not good practice to step aggressively toward the coach while issuing a T as the Trail did in this situation. I stand by both of those opinions based on my experience as an official and specific situations that I have seen both escalated and diffused. Since apparently it needs to be said, this doesnt in any way excuse the coach's behavior, mitigate his culpability for his actions, or suggest that the official deserved to have what happened in any way whatsoever.

It is however my opinion of a possible takeaway from this situation.

+1. It's all about the takeaways and lessons learned from an officiating standpoint. This is an officiating forum, after all.

I said (late last night....when I was tired and only saw the video a couple times) that T showed "extreme anger/emotion." In fairness, I'll revise that and agree with some that have said his actions were simply "aggressive." Still, if we expect the coach to keep his cool, we have to be ready to do so as well. While I would have liked the L to have the "T," like many posters I don't object to the T coming in quickly here. But I would have preferred he omit the fast approaching, all-up-in-your-grill signaling. The T's approach seemed escalatory, and we're charged with being de-escalatory when we're on the court.

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

That was a terrible call? OK, I thought he was there.

And you do not control the actions of a coach. They do that on their own. If they cannot do that, that is on them. They rolled the dice, not everyone is going to walk away from them.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

I don't know what game you were watching. That was as close to a bang-bang block/charge as there ever is.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I don't know what game you were watching. That was as close to a bang-bang block/charge as there ever is.

It was, but Tony was late rotating and got caught looking over his shoulder. It was a block. Not a 50/50 call if you're in position to see it in time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It was, but Tony was late rotating and got caught looking over his shoulder. It was a block. Not a 50/50 call if you're in position to see it in time.

And he got it right IMO.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It was, but Tony was late rotating and got caught looking over his shoulder. It was a block. Not a 50/50 call if you're in position to see it in time.

Tony went on record and basically said he made the correct call.

Sorry, but for you to say it wasn't a close call is insane.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Tony went on record and basically said he made the correct call.

He also didn't work the NCAA tournament that year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

He also didn't work the NCAA tournament that year.

What does that mean? That one call made that big of a difference? I doubt that seriously.

BTW, not sure what else the defender can do?



Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

He also didn't work the NCAA tournament that year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You should do your research and not just make blind statements because you're wrong again. He worked a regional final in 2014.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by BigT

I was slapped on the shoulder by coach who was upset with me and took a cheap shot. I regret not calling the police.

It sounds like this guy didnt press charges and I think that is a huge mistake.

Please explain?