Coach appears to headbutt official

[APG]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

And this, my friends, is the difference between ASSAULT and BATTERY. BATTERY is normally the charge when contact is made.

As alluded to earlier...depends on the jurisdiction. Many (maybe even most?) don't make the distinction anymore and have their assault laws reflect that...to include either threaten and/or bodily contact.

As to the play....I don't know how anyone can say the slot should have had first crack at this. This is one of the lead's bread and butter plays....secondary defender in the lane. Slot is not going to be able to see the lateral movement as well as the lead and determine whether the defender got to his spot prior to the offensive player being airborne.

With the technical fouls....I agree that the trail came in too quickly with his T. I say that with the caveat that both officials are on relative equal footing (i.e experience level). I could perhaps see a CC coming in a little quicker with the T to help his younger (less experienced) partner. Otherwise. I think he needs to give partner a chance to take care of business. He doesn't do so...then by all means T him up.

[Smitty]

As long as we're all speculating, my thought was the T initially sprinted over to act as a buffer between the coach and the L because he didn't want the coach following the L all the way to the table. But I bet he heard something as he closed in that was T worthy and just ended up in a bad place when he felt the need to T him up. But who knows.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Smitty

As long as we're all speculating, my thought was the T initially sprinted over to act as a buffer between the coach and the L because he didn't want the coach following the L all the way to the table. But I bet he heard something as he closed in that was T worthy and just ended up in a bad place when he felt the need to T him up. But who knows.

Dave,

This was my initial thought as well.....

[VaTerp]

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Its a shame that it has to be spelled out but not a single person here has tried to excuse the coach's behavior or deemed it acceptable in any shape or form. So I don't know why people keep repeating it as if anyone is arguing to the contrary.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations. Every single game I work I come away thinking of things I could have done differently to improve overall at this craft.

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

I also commented that its generally not good practice to step aggressively toward the coach while issuing a T as the Trail did in this situation. I stand by both of those opinions based on my experience as an official and specific situations that I have seen both escalated and diffused. Since apparently it needs to be said, this doesnt in any way excuse the coach's behavior, mitigate his culpability for his actions, or suggest that the official deserved to have what happened in any way whatsoever.

It is however my opinion of a possible takeaway from this situation.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Its a shame that it has to be spelled out but not a single person here has tried to excuse the coach's behavior or deemed it acceptable in any shape or form. So I don't know why people keep repeating it as if anyone is arguing to the contrary.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations. Every single game I work I come away thinking of things I could have done differently to improve overall at this craft.

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

I also commented that its generally not good practice to step aggressively toward the coach while issuing a T as the Trail did in this situation. I stand by both of those opinions based on my experience as an official and specific situations that I have seen both escalated and diffused. Since apparently it needs to be said, this doesnt in any way excuse the coach's behavior, mitigate his culpability for his actions, or suggest that the official deserved to have what happened in any way whatsoever.

It is however my opinion of a possible takeaway from this situation.

+1. It's all about the takeaways and lessons learned from an officiating standpoint. This is an officiating forum, after all.

I said (late last night....when I was tired and only saw the video a couple times) that T showed "extreme anger/emotion." In fairness, I'll revise that and agree with some that have said his actions were simply "aggressive." Still, if we expect the coach to keep his cool, we have to be ready to do so as well. While I would have liked the L to have the "T," like many posters I don't object to the T coming in quickly here. But I would have preferred he omit the fast approaching, all-up-in-your-grill signaling. The T's approach seemed escalatory, and we're charged with being de-escalatory when we're on the court.

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

That was a terrible call? OK, I thought he was there.

And you do not control the actions of a coach. They do that on their own. If they cannot do that, that is on them. They rolled the dice, not everyone is going to walk away from them.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope. Same thing with Kelly Self and Bill Self on Monday night. My point is....try to be de-escalatory.

I don't know what game you were watching. That was as close to a bang-bang block/charge as there ever is.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I don't know what game you were watching. That was as close to a bang-bang block/charge as there ever is.

It was, but Tony was late rotating and got caught looking over his shoulder. It was a block. Not a 50/50 call if you're in position to see it in time.


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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Remember Tony Greene and Jim Boeheim a couple of years ago? Same situation....bad call, but didn't excuse Boeheim's response. Did Tony Greene aggressively approach and/or signal the "T"? Nope.

Actually, Greene's call was the correct call.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

I commented that I felt that Trail should have given the L another second or two to handle the situation himself. As someone else noted the calling official puts his hand on his whistle and begins to bring it to his mouth as the coach is into his tirade. It appears to me that he is likely about to call a T himself here.

That was me. I keep thinking if I was the L on this play I probably T the HC once I see him that far onto the court - even before bothering to give the information on the initial foul. If he's down the sideline and complaining I can wait. Essentially, the HC got in the way of the L as the L moved towards the reporting area.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

What I find incredibly disappointing is that people cannot distinguish a discussion of what we as officials can learn from a situation and perhaps think of doing some things differently from saying that anyone "deserved" to get assaulted or "making excuses" for this coach's obviously inexcusable behavior.

Perhaps you should read my post a little closer instead of getting instantaneously defensive. And my comments were not limited to what was written here in this forum. There is a world that exists outside of this place and there are even officials in it, surprisingly enough.

That doesnt mean that we cant offer opinions and have a discussion about any takeaways or lessons learned on how to handle situations.

And not once did I say we shouldn't. But there is also a way to do that without alluding to victim blaming. Relax and carry on.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Perhaps you should read my post a little closer instead of getting instantaneously defensive. And my comments were not limited to what was written here in this forum. There is a world that exists outside of this place and there are even officials in it, surprisingly enough.

I heard someone suggest in the media that the officials flopped. As if that matters when you are on the court and the only one that has the right to be on the court is the official in this situation.

Peace