Swinging elbow contact (video)

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Dad

Press play. Hit YouTube link. YouTube lets you slow it down to .25 speed.

I doubt this is ever happening right in front of me. Probably could've called two jumps balls or a violation for excessive swinging of elbows. I'm pretty quick on jumps balls at this level when stupid stuff is liable to happen if you let it go. Again, could've called a violation also. Waiting was probably a mistake.

If it gets to an elbow in the face. Someone is probably sitting for the night.

THe biggest question is, why did the video creator force us to look at the opening screen for 25 seconds? That's freaking ridiculous!!

You can't just make up a jump ball to keep this from happening. G21 was moving enough with the ball after the rebound that I doubt anyone's getting in there for a tie-up. There is the potential to call a violation for swinging elbows the first time she goes around, but due to the camera angle and the number of other players between G21 and the camera, hard to tell really.

Anyone have any thoughts on W34 with her "high clapping" after the foul has been called?

One more thing: How do you get half way through the second quarter of a girls game with only ONE foul called(prior to this one)? Surely there had to be some nasty ugly illegal screens that could have been called in the first quarter!!

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

THe biggest question is, why did the video creator force us to look at the opening screen for 25 seconds? That's freaking ridiculous!!

You can't just make up a jump ball to keep this from happening. G21 was moving enough with the ball after the rebound that I doubt anyone's getting in there for a tie-up. There is the potential to call a violation for swinging elbows the first time she goes around, but due to the camera angle and the number of other players between G21 and the camera, hard to tell really.

Agreed on both points.... from this angle, I don't have any way to call a held ball.

Intentional Personal foul at a minimum, and I wouldn't try to talk a partner off a flagrant if I had this angle on the action.

Anyone have any thoughts on W34 with her "high clapping" after the foul has been called?

Nothing more than a talk-to, unless a) she's staring down an opponent or clapping in the opponents face (neither of which are true here) OR b) she's been warned previously for a similar act.

One more thing: How do you get half way through the second quarter of a girls game with only ONE foul called(prior to this one)? Surely there had to be some nasty ugly illegal screens that could have been called in the first quarter!!

It can happen... I had a varsity girls game earlier this season with only 4 fouls called in the first half. And I've had boys games where I've had both teams in the double-bonus within the first 6 minutes of game time.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

THe biggest question is, why did the video creator force us to look at the opening screen for 25 seconds? That's freaking ridiculous!!

You can't just make up a jump ball to keep this from happening. G21 was moving enough with the ball after the rebound that I doubt anyone's getting in there for a tie-up. There is the potential to call a violation for swinging elbows the first time she goes around, but due to the camera angle and the number of other players between G21 and the camera, hard to tell really.

Anyone have any thoughts on W34 with her "high clapping" after the foul has been called?

One more thing: How do you get half way through the second quarter of a girls game with only ONE foul called(prior to this one)? Surely there had to be some nasty ugly illegal screens that could have been called in the first quarter!!

I'm not making anything up. Watch the video. There is an easy jump ball/swinging elbows situation where you can call either.

There's an elbow swing. A jump. An elbow swing. A jump. WACK a face shot. I'm not clipping another obvious video to make my point. Go to youtube and slow it down if it's too fast for you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm not making anything up. Watch the video. There is an easy jump ball/swinging elbows situation where you can call either.

There's an elbow swing. A jump. An elbow swing. A jump. WACK a face shot. I'm not clipping another obvious video to make my point. Go to youtube and slow it down if it's too fast for you.

Are you seeing a jump ball at full speed or at .25 speed. My games are played at full speed.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Are you seeing a jump ball at full speed or at .25 speed. My games are played at full speed.

Full. Looks to me like there's an initial excessive swinging of elbows with the defense having hands on the ball. I'm probably making a call here based off what I think this game has looked like after watching this play.

Why let her swing around and not get it right away with a clump of players involved?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

Why let her swing around and not get it right away with a clump of players involved?

I don't see a jump ball, and our job isn't to anticipate "what" may transpire when making a call. In games like this you could probably get away with making up a call (I don't see why you would want to do it). But in some games you would only get yourself in hot water and this video and your explanation would most likely not sit well with you assignor if it ever gets to that.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't see a jump ball, and our job isn't to anticipate "what" may transpire when making a call. In games like this you could probably get away with making up a call (I don't see why you would want to do it). But in some games you would only get yourself in hot water and this video and your explanation would most likely not sit well with you assignor if it ever gets to that.

It's not making up a call. It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

She's clearly swinging around wildly with her elbows. The official made a mistake letting it go, twice.

I have a violation and I'm calling it when she violates the swinging elbows rule.

I'm not sure why we're bringing assigners into this, but any decent assigner who also assigns me my 5a/collegiate is asking me why I'm letting a player at a low level swing around wildly and waiting for someone to get hurt to blow my whistle.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

Just having the hand on the ball doesn't necessitate a jump ball. If that were the case there would be dozens of jump balls each game.

There is no jump ball.

A violation should have been called.

Any action after the violation would have been dead ball contact.

However we have a swung, waist was the pivot point, elbow to the face. Flagrant.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Dad

any decent assigner who also assigns me my 5a/collegiate is asking me why I'm letting a player at a low level swing around wildly and waiting for someone to get hurt to blow my whistle.

He won't be asking you, "why didn't you fabricate a jump ball there instead?"

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dad

It's not making up a call. It's the same concept behind calling a jump ball instead of a travel even though the defender didn't have their hand on the ball for more than a step.

She's clearly swinging around wildly with her elbows. The official made a mistake letting it go, twice.

I have a violation and I'm calling it when she violates the swinging elbows rule.

I'm not sure why we're bringing assigners into this, but any decent assigner who also assigns me my 5a/collegiate is asking me why I'm letting a player at a low level swing around wildly and waiting for someone to get hurt to blow my whistle.

I don't think anybody is arguing the possibility of calling excessive swinging of the elbows. What's being questioned is your ability to see a held ball from this camera angle.

That travel/held ball concept is not anything I've ever heard of.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Dad

Full. Looks to me like there's an initial excessive swinging of elbows with the defense having hands on the ball. I'm probably making a call here based off what I think this game has looked like after watching this play.

Why let her swing around and not get it right away with a clump of players involved?

What exactly do you think this game has looked like after watching this play?

[crosscountry55]

Ok, so off topic but....

3-person crew in a California sub-varsity tournament? That is an unexpected sight.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Ok, so off topic but....

3-person crew in a California sub-varsity tournament? That is an unexpected sight.

WHy don't you start a new thread instead of trying to derail this one?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

What exactly do you think this game has looked like after watching this play?

Like a low level girl's game.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Dad

Like a low level girl's game.

OK, but what kind of activity are you assuming has occurred to justify a made up call?