Non-Correctable Error

[Dad]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I don't see why this is so difficult. After the opening tip, I glance at the table to ensure they have the arrow pointed the right direction. If they don't, I'll go tell them to correct it during the first dead ball.

From there, after every AP throw-in, I make sure they change the arrow properly. In this way, I always know who should get the next throw in, and I also know that the arrow is correct.

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dad

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

You say it does not work for everyone, but what happens when you do not switch the whistle properly? You default to the whistle location all the time? Or do you have to reconstruct what took place previously?

The same thing happens on a foul situation. If you knew that the scoreboard said 6 fouls and now you called what you see as 7 fouls, how do you figure out you are in the bonus or not? What do you do if the official scorer tells you that was incorrect? Do you just take their word for it or do you start asking questions?

There are a lot of things we have to at the very least be aware of and even if someone is wrong and correct. How else do you correct these situations? You have to reconstruct what you did before and be aware of and the arrow is no different.

Peace

[Dad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You say it does not work for everyone, but what happens when you do not switch the whistle properly? You default to the whistle location all the time? Or do you have to reconstruct what took place previously?

The same thing happens on a foul situation. If you knew that the scoreboard said 6 fouls and now you called what you see as 7 fouls, how do you figure out you are in the bonus or not? What do you do if the official scorer tells you that was incorrect? Do you just take their word for it or do you start asking questions?

There are a lot of things we have to at the very least be aware of and even if someone is wrong and correct. How else do you correct these situations? You have to reconstruct what you did before and be aware of and the arrow is no different.

Peace

I only default to something in my pocket when there is no arrow at the table or on the score board. I use pocket+reconstruction. If they both aren't there I'll see if table/partner knows, but it's pretty rare. Only really happens in games with a lot of jump balls.

minus the score board and table, I've never been successful in keeping track of fouls during a game. If the count says six than the next foul is a shot or two. If the table tells me it was wrong and it should've been say 5 instead of 6 then I'm going with them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dad

I only default to something in my pocket when there is no arrow at the table or on the score board. I use pocket+reconstruction. If they both aren't there I'll see if table/partner knows, but it's pretty rare. Only really happens in games with a lot of jump balls.

minus the score board and table, I've never been successful in keeping track of fouls during a game. If the count says six than the next foul is a shot or two. If the table tells me it was wrong and it should've been say 5 instead of 6 then I'm going with them.

The rule requires there to be an arrow or device for the AP at the table. If you are using a water bottle or a pencil, that is adequate if you do not have a situation.

Oh and I never use the scoreboard either as half the time I am not trying to figure out if we are giving it to the home team or the visiting team (and you are not always at the real home team's schools, like this past week).

So if you can go by what the table tells you (and they have all that information at the table BTW), why do you need a crutch?

Peace

[spret93]

The first two replies answered my question perfectly (the play I was asking about was not an AP throw-in). Thanks guys.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mdswitz

The first two replies answered my question perfectly (the play I was asking about was not an AP throw-in). Thanks guys.

yeah, we tend to find other things to nitpick once a question has been answered.

Welcome to the forum.

[spret93]

Originally Posted by Adam

yeah, we tend to find other things to nitpick once a question has been answered.

Welcome to the forum.

yes, some free insight! Thanks!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you are using a water bottle or a pencil, that is adequate if you do not have a situation.

The Catholic middle school league that I occasionally work has a policy that the table does not keep track of the arrow. We're lucky if they keep the correct score on the scoreboard, remember to turn the clock on, and off, properly, and keep track of team fouls. Officials are required to keep track of the arrow. It's in our contract.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Catholic middle school league that I occasionally work has a policy that the table does not keep track of the arrow. We're lucky if they keep the correct score on the scoreboard, remember to turn the clock on, and off, properly, and keep track of team fouls. Officials are required to keep track of the arrow. It's in our contract.

you need someone with backbone to rewrite your contract.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

you need someone with backbone to rewrite your contract.

We're already stealing money. $86.00 for an Catholic middle school eighth grade girl/boy doubleheader; seven minute periods; in, and out, in about two hours; all games close to home. Last season we were asked to email the scores to the league webmaster after the game. For $86.00? No problem.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dad

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

I've always had some sort of arrow (a hand-drawn sign, a water bottle, a shoe) even in rec-league games.

(Summer might be an exception)

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I've always had some sort of arrow (a hand-drawn sign, a water bottle, a shoe) even in rec-league games.

(Summer might be an exception)

Summer is the exception. And the very rare freshman game with a table who's goofing around on their phones.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

There is an arrow required. If nothing else, they can use a water bottle. If you're working one of those games, though, no one is going to care if you have a rubber band on your wrist or a whistle in your pocket. Do what needs to be done.

If I'm working anything MS or above, there will be an arrow of some sort.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

There is an arrow required. If nothing else, they can use a water bottle. If you're working one of those games, though, no one is going to care if you have a rubber band on your wrist or a whistle in your pocket. Do what needs to be done.

If I'm working anything MS or above, there will be an arrow of some sort.

Maybe my situation isn't the norm. For a lot of summer ball there is only one person at the table. They try to get a 2nd, but it's often 2x more work for me and I gave up and just tracked everything myself.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I don't see why this is so difficult. After the opening tip, I glance at the table to ensure they have the arrow pointed the right direction. If they don't, I'll go tell them to correct it during the first dead ball.

From there, after every AP throw-in, I make sure they change the arrow properly. In this way, I always know who should get the next throw in, and I also know that the arrow is correct.

I do exactly that too.

Originally Posted by Dad

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

An arrow at the table is required by rule. If you don't have one, then create one from a water bottle or towel or something.
I don't know where you officiate, but I have a hard time grasping that HS games would be conducted without the required equipment, such as a visible clock, scoreboard, arrow, nets, etc.