Non-Correctable Error

[Dad]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Hence the word "absolutely." You know that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when a competent grown person that you've seen at the table a hundred times tells you it's B's ball and you remember giving the ball to B last time which was 6 minutes ago, you will go with your recollection over what (s)he has written in the book?

This isn't to say that I don't forget. If I do remember I have a 100% success rate, so I will go up to the table and say, "Didn't we just give ball to blue 6 minutes ago." If they respond with I'm right then I'll switch it, if not then it's theirs. Keep in mind this is only if I'm sure and I have a great relationship with tables.

@Rut&Adam

I see where you're both coming from, it's just in some scenarios I think it's a good idea. In Rut's case, yes, if an official forgets it even once then I don't think the idea works for them. At higher level ball it does look tacky.

[jpgc99]

I don't see why this is so difficult. After the opening tip, I glance at the table to ensure they have the arrow pointed the right direction. If they don't, I'll go tell them to correct it during the first dead ball.

From there, after every AP throw-in, I make sure they change the arrow properly. In this way, I always know who should get the next throw in, and I also know that the arrow is correct.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I don't see why this is so difficult. After the opening tip, I glance at the table to ensure they have the arrow pointed the right direction. If they don't, I'll go tell them to correct it during the first dead ball.

From there, after every AP throw-in, I make sure they change the arrow properly. In this way, I always know who should get the next throw in, and I also know that the arrow is correct.

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dad

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

You say it does not work for everyone, but what happens when you do not switch the whistle properly? You default to the whistle location all the time? Or do you have to reconstruct what took place previously?

The same thing happens on a foul situation. If you knew that the scoreboard said 6 fouls and now you called what you see as 7 fouls, how do you figure out you are in the bonus or not? What do you do if the official scorer tells you that was incorrect? Do you just take their word for it or do you start asking questions?

There are a lot of things we have to at the very least be aware of and even if someone is wrong and correct. How else do you correct these situations? You have to reconstruct what you did before and be aware of and the arrow is no different.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Dad

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

I've always had some sort of arrow (a hand-drawn sign, a water bottle, a shoe) even in rec-league games.

(Summer might be an exception)

[Dad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You say it does not work for everyone, but what happens when you do not switch the whistle properly? You default to the whistle location all the time? Or do you have to reconstruct what took place previously?

The same thing happens on a foul situation. If you knew that the scoreboard said 6 fouls and now you called what you see as 7 fouls, how do you figure out you are in the bonus or not? What do you do if the official scorer tells you that was incorrect? Do you just take their word for it or do you start asking questions?

There are a lot of things we have to at the very least be aware of and even if someone is wrong and correct. How else do you correct these situations? You have to reconstruct what you did before and be aware of and the arrow is no different.

Peace

I only default to something in my pocket when there is no arrow at the table or on the score board. I use pocket+reconstruction. If they both aren't there I'll see if table/partner knows, but it's pretty rare. Only really happens in games with a lot of jump balls.

minus the score board and table, I've never been successful in keeping track of fouls during a game. If the count says six than the next foul is a shot or two. If the table tells me it was wrong and it should've been say 5 instead of 6 then I'm going with them.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I've always had some sort of arrow (a hand-drawn sign, a water bottle, a shoe) even in rec-league games.

(Summer might be an exception)

Summer is the exception. And the very rare freshman game with a table who's goofing around on their phones.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dad

I only default to something in my pocket when there is no arrow at the table or on the score board. I use pocket+reconstruction. If they both aren't there I'll see if table/partner knows, but it's pretty rare. Only really happens in games with a lot of jump balls.

minus the score board and table, I've never been successful in keeping track of fouls during a game. If the count says six than the next foul is a shot or two. If the table tells me it was wrong and it should've been say 5 instead of 6 then I'm going with them.

The rule requires there to be an arrow or device for the AP at the table. If you are using a water bottle or a pencil, that is adequate if you do not have a situation.

Oh and I never use the scoreboard either as half the time I am not trying to figure out if we are giving it to the home team or the visiting team (and you are not always at the real home team's schools, like this past week).

So if you can go by what the table tells you (and they have all that information at the table BTW), why do you need a crutch?

Peace

[spret93]

The first two replies answered my question perfectly (the play I was asking about was not an AP throw-in). Thanks guys.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

This isn't to say that I don't forget. If I do remember I have a 100% success rate, so I will go up to the table and say, "Didn't we just give ball to blue 6 minutes ago." If they respond with I'm right then I'll switch it, if not then it's theirs. Keep in mind this is only if I'm sure and I have a great relationship with tables.

@Rut&Adam

I see where you're both coming from, it's just in some scenarios I think it's a good idea. In Rut's case, yes, if an official forgets it even once then I don't think the idea works for them. At higher level ball it does look tacky.

I've made it a habit to check the table after every AP situation to make sure it changes. If it doesn't, I'll address it at the first opportunity.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

Great way to do it, but it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not going to turn my head during live ball.

And as stated several times, at lower levels there just isn't an arrow.

There is an arrow required. If nothing else, they can use a water bottle. If you're working one of those games, though, no one is going to care if you have a rubber band on your wrist or a whistle in your pocket. Do what needs to be done.

If I'm working anything MS or above, there will be an arrow of some sort.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by mdswitz

The first two replies answered my question perfectly (the play I was asking about was not an AP throw-in). Thanks guys.

yeah, we tend to find other things to nitpick once a question has been answered.

Welcome to the forum.

[spret93]

Originally Posted by Adam

yeah, we tend to find other things to nitpick once a question has been answered.

Welcome to the forum.

yes, some free insight! Thanks!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

I had a similar situation happen a few years back with a veteran official.
We wrap up a quick huddle before the 2nd half throw-in and myself and the other U tell the veteran R: White (Visiting team) ball.

I take the position as L and other U as C. We look up and he's giving the ball to H1, who immediately throws it into H2, who then dribbles into his back court - where we're all standing. Buzzer sounds, and C whistles (I think for over and back). R (T) realizes what happened: hits his whistle, walks mid-court and tells both coaches "My bad - I screwed up..." Coaches nod in agreement, so he back peddles and gives the ball to V1 for the throw in. I knew he botched it, but wasn't going to challenge him after he got the coaches to agree with him in the middle of the court.

What would you have done?

OK, I think we've hashed out the OP's question and the whole AP Arrow issue, so please allow me to derail this thread a little further.

Why is the visiting team wearing white?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

OK, I think we've hashed out the OP's question and the whole AP Arrow issue, so please allow me to derail this thread a little further.

Why is the visiting team wearing white?

Home teams sometimes like to show off their cool uniforms which usually aren't the white ones.