Very Rare Events...

[Kansas Ref]

Hey any of you observed these events to occur? ( I have not)

1) 7-5-2-a.

2) 7-5-1-a-d.

3) disallowing a FT attempt due to 10 secs having expired.

[bob jenkins]

I'm not quite sure what you are asking on the first two -- you've never used the resumption of play procedure?

I have has a 10-second FT violation.

I do agree that they are rare -- they cannot be very rare.

[Raymond]

How about medium rare?

[Freddy]

1) 7-5-2-a.
Yes, on every throw-in following a violation where I am the administering official. Happens dozens of times a game.
(I think you must mean some other rule reference, right?)

2) 7-5-1-a-d.
a: Yes, that's the ROP procedure. Maybe once every three or four years or so.
d: No, each time the few times the ROP procedure was enacted, the "behavior modification function" of our service was successful and neither team delayed lest they get the same treatment.

3) disallowing a FT attempt due to 10 secs having expired.
Not since the late 70's...but the last three seconds might've slowed down a bit once or twice since then. Not a problem around here.[/QUOTE]

[SNIPERBBB]

I've had a few 10 second violations...and the kids weren't still even close to being ready to shoot.

[jTheUmp]

You want rare events? How about 10-3-9 (goaltending during a free throw).

I've NEVER seen that one, and I doubt that I ever will.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

You want rare events? How about 10-3-9 (goaltending during a free throw).

I've NEVER seen that one, and I doubt that I ever will.

Never say never. This happened during an NCAAM's game a couple of seasons ago. JRut posted the video.

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...tml#post943173

[crosscountry55]

I called a 10-second free-throw violation during my second year. Front end of a one-and-one, no less. In a close game. Let's just say my partner provided some forward-leaning mentorship afterwards. I have never called it since. One time I counted (slowly) to 15. Still didn't blow it.

How about this for rare. Don't have my book in front of me, but a live ball (not a try) that enters the basket from behind the three-point line. Counts as two points. Never thought I'd see it, and then sure enough a Duke player a couple of seasons ago trying to save a ball from going out of bounds in the corner flipped one right through his opponent's basket. Damn the bad luck. The crew was right on top of it and made sure the score was a 2 and not a 3. No one in the entire place knew that rule except the officials.

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

How about this for rare. Don't have my book in front of me, but a live ball (not a try) that enters the basket from behind the three-point line. Counts as two points. Never thought I'd see it, and then sure enough a Duke player a couple of seasons ago trying to save a ball from going out of bounds in the corner flipped one right through his opponent's basket. Damn the bad luck. The crew was right on top of it and made sure the score was a 2 and not a 3. No one in the entire place knew that rule except the officials.

It was actually Kentucky.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It was actually Kentucky.

What's with the white undershirt on Blue #42?

Note: I know more about rocket science than I do about NCAA "Fashion Police" rules.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It was actually Kentucky.

Ahh, yes. Well researched, my friend. I got my blue and white teams confused.

Thanks for the clip. It's still fun to watch. Basketball has a way of providing some nice comedic moments from time to time.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

How about this for rare. Don't have my book in front of me, but a live ball (not a try) that enters the basket from behind the three-point line. Counts as two points. Never thought I'd see it, and then sure enough a Duke player a couple of seasons ago trying to save a ball from going out of bounds in the corner flipped one right through his opponent's basket. Damn the bad luck. The crew was right on top of it and made sure the score was a 2 and not a 3. No one in the entire place knew that rule except the officials.

The bolded and underlined statement above is incorrect if we are going by NCAA-M rules. The play in the referenced game only counted as two points because it is stated in the rulebook that any field goal scored in an opponents basket counts as two points, regardless of where the player's location on the playing court when the ball was released. It has nothing to do with whether or not the shot was a try or not.

Additionally, when an offensive player throws a pass into their own basket from beyond the 3 point line, 3 points are awarded. It does not need to be a shot attempt to get 3 points. There is a specific case play that covers this situation.

[Kansas Ref]

truly awesome--both in the display of the footage and in the ability to retrieve and present this very rare case, thanks.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I do agree that they are rare -- they cannot be very rare.

*Yes, they can appropriately be called "very rare" events. I presume you are intending to imply that it is not proper grammar to add the adverb "very" to describe something that is uncommon; however, even in ''statistical analysis" there are "signficant" events (i.e., p <0.01) and "very significant events'' (i.e., p <0.001). Most of the events enumerated herein are indeed very rare.

*In my Rules book there is a mid-book insert for Referee magazine ad; it is showing a female ref holding up 2 hands with 2 fingers--ostensibly signaling to the scorer table something. If she is indicating a foul on A22, and she is NFHS level, then the wrong signal is being used,no? Or is she signaling that each team has 2 timeouts remaining?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

The bolded and underlined statement above is incorrect if we are going by NCAA-M rules. The play in the referenced game only counted as two points because it is stated in the rulebook that any field goal scored in an opponents basket counts as two points, regardless of where the player's location on the playing court when the ball was released. It has nothing to do with whether or not the shot was a try or not. Additionally, when an offensive player throws a pass into their own basket from beyond the 3 point line, 3 points are awarded. It does not need to be a shot attempt to get 3 points. There is a specific case play that covers this situation.

Let's take a look at NFHS rule:

NFHS 5-2-1: A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who
is located behind the team's own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball
that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal
from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
See 4-5-4.

5.2.1 SITUATION B: With 2:45 left in the second quarter, B1 has the ball on the
left wing in Team B's frontcourt, standing behind the three-point arc. B5 makes a
backdoor cut toward the basket. B1 passes the ball toward the ring and B5 leaps
for the potential "alley-oop" dunk. The ball, however, enters and passes through
the goal directly from B1's pass and is not touched by B5. RULING: Score three
points for Team B. A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the
three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an
actual try for goal.

5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The
ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in
the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the
two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING:
In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense
and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three
points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three-point line.
In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the two point
area