Continuous Motion/Traveling

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

FED has a case where a foul while shooting followed by a pass is still a foul while shooting.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would love to see this citation.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I would love to see this citation.

the last sentence of 4-41-2 (i think) says that it is not "essential" that the player release the ball because the foul may have prevented the release. he may be referring to an interp but i don't recall a specific play in the case book. maybe there is one..

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

the last sentence of 4-41-2 (i think) says that it is not "essential" that the player release the ball because the foul may have prevented the release. he may be referring to an interp but i don't recall a specific play in the case book. maybe there is one..

4-41-2: A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

Also, the rule points out that it is necessary for an official to use judgment to make a decision as to whether, or not, the player is throwing, or attempting to throw, for goal.

Nice citation. Thanks BigCat. One can't argue with this rule. Always listen to bob. It's good judgment, and good decisions, that allow basketball officials to get paid the big bucks. That's how I paid for my villa in Tuscany. If any Forum members are ever in Tuscany, be sure to stop by and say "Hello".

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-41-2: A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team’s own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official’s judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player’s hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

Also, the rule points out that it is necessary for an official to use judgment to make a decision as to whether, or not, the player is throwing, or attempting to throw, for goal.

Nice citation. Thanks BigCat. One can't argue with this rule. Always listen to bob.

Thx Billy. I knew if i cited the rule you'd post it for me I'm not talking about the situation when the foul causes a player to dump/pass the ball or hold onto it. That's a shooting foul, 2 shots all day. I'm talking about the situation when the foul has no effect on the offensive player, minimal contact or even 'Phantom" call.

A player can be taking the ball up to shoot or pass. I think of 2 on 1 situation. i have the ball and pick it up…begin upward movement….phantom whistle. At that moment i meet the technical definition of 'in the act" but the same movements are necessary for a pass. ---Im interpreting others to say that the referee must freeze the situation at that moment and determine if it is a pass or shot. i believe that's a guess. If the player, a split second later follows through and dumps the ball to the teammate why would i not consider that? When you look at the whole play it looks clear that he was passing the ball. Again, if you freeze it while the player is taking the ball up i believe it is a guess.

Finally, if they didn't want you to consider what happens to the ball after contact there would be no need to mention the last sentence about the foul preventing the release of the ball. The inference is that if the foul has no effect on the play the player should shoot the ball.

We must decide what the player was doing at the time of contact but I believe we can and must look at what happens immediately thereafter….

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

... determine if it is a pass or shot. i believe that's a guess. If the player, a split second later follows through and dumps the ball to the teammate why would i not consider that? When you look at the whole play it looks clear that he was passing the ball. ... We must decide what the player was doing at the time of contact but I believe we can and must look at what happens immediately thereafter….

It's not just a guess, it's an educated guess based on, in my case, thirty-four years of observing such plays, and the immediate aftermath of such plays. Am I right 100% of the time on such plays? No. But, I bet that I come up with the correct decision almost all the time. And, it's a decision that I always sell ("That's a shot", "That's a pass", "No shot"). It's never a wishy-washy call for me. Any semblance of doubt in my call would always invite criticism from the coaches.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's not just a guess, it's an educated guess based on, in my case, thirty-four years of observing such plays, and the immediate aftermath of such plays. Am I right 100% of the time on such plays? No. But, I bet that I come up with the correct decision almost all the time. And, it's a decision that I always sell ("That's a shot", "That's a pass", "No shot"). It's never a wishy-washy call for me. Any semblance of doubt in my call would always invite criticism from the coaches.

You are looking at the play and the "immediate aftermath." that is what i am saying. I'm not going to freeze everything at the moment of contact or the moment the whistle is blown. No matter how many years we've done this there are times when we need to keep looking at the play to determine what the player was doing at the time of the whistle.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

You are looking at the play and the "immediate aftermath." that is what i am saying. I'm not going to freeze everything at the moment of contact or the moment the whistle is blown. No matter how many years we've done this there are times when we need to keep looking at the play to determine what the player was doing at the time of the whistle.

We call this a patient whistle, and we use it in a lot of situations, not just the situation described in this thread.