Continuous Motion?

[Reffing Rev.]

A1 drives along the endline and secures the ball in her left hand as she jumps for a layup. She is fouled by B1 in the air and the ball pops out of her left hand...while in the air she grabs the ball with both hands in front of her chest and then throws up the ball with the right hand. Ball enters basket. What do you got?

[mbyron]

No basket, the try ended when she recovered the ball. 2 shots.

[Adam]

Ouch, I hate this call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mbyron

No basket, the try ended when she recovered the ball. 2 shots.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Ouch, I hate this call.

Why?

[Adam]

Not in principal, I would just hate to take this basket away on a very athletic play. It makes sense, and it's the right call; I'd just have a sinking feeling in my chest if I made it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mbyron

No basket, the try ended when she recovered the ball. 2 shots.

Is there or has there ever been a case play or rules interp for this play?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Is there or has there ever been a case play or rules interp for this play?

I don't recall one for that play specifically, but a try ends when it is certain it will be unsuccessful, and a try that is grabbed out of the air certainly meets that standard.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Is there or has there ever been a case play or rules interp for this play?

Bob has referenced 4-41-4, which defines when a try ends. Note that merely touching the ball does not end a try (4.41.4 A).

[Anchor]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't recall one for that play specifically, but a try ends when it is certain it will be unsuccessful, and a try that is grabbed out of the air certainly meets that standard.

Excellent applicaton

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

A1 drives along the endline and secures the ball in her left hand as she jumps for a layup. She is fouled by B1 in the air and the ball pops out of her left hand...while in the air she grabs the ball with both hands in front of her chest and then throws up the ball with the right hand. Ball enters basket. What do you got?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I don't recall one for that play specifically, but a try ends when it is certain it will be unsuccessful, and a try that is grabbed out of the air certainly meets that standard.

Not saying who's right or wrong, just trying to further the debate. I don't know that I would deem the action from Rev's scenario as the try starting and ending.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not saying who's right or wrong, just trying to further the debate. I don't know that I would deem the action from Rev's scenario as the try starting and ending.

"Jump for the layup" is pretty much the try starting (well, it probably started earlier, but this makes it clear that there is a try in progess).

"Grabs the ball with both hands" is pretty much the end of the try.

If you want to say "the ball pops out of her left hand" is also the end of the try (since she might not have "released the ball"), I could agree in theory with that -- as a practical matter, I'm still calling that part of the try.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

A1 drives along the endline and secures the ball in her left hand as she jumps for a layup. She is fouled by B1 in the air and the ball pops out of her left hand...while in the air she grabs the ball with both hands in front of her chest and then throws up the ball with the right hand. Ball enters basket. What do you got?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Jump for the layup" is pretty much the try starting (well, it probably started earlier, but this makes it clear that there is a try in progess).

"Grabs the ball with both hands" is pretty much the end of the try.

If you want to say "the ball pops out of her left hand" is also the end of the try (since she might not have "released the ball"), I could agree in theory with that -- as a practical matter, I'm still calling that part of the try.

Philosophically speaking I personally don't see "...while in the air she grabs the ball with both hands in front of her chest" as ending the try as I don't see ""in the air and the ball pops out of her left hand" as the beginning of the throw or as releasing the ball on a try.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not saying who's right or wrong, just trying to further the debate. I don't know that I would deem the action from Rev's scenario as the try starting and ending.

Well, think of it this way: if it were a more ordinary case, she was fouled on the way up, and she released the ball, wouldn't you be calling a shooting foul? Even if the release was "awkward" or "ugly"? So that's probably the start of a try.

The rule specifically states that the try ends "when it is certain the throw is unsuccessful," as Bob has stated. When she catches it, the ball is headed AWAY from the basket. At that point, I'm pretty certain that the throw is unsuccessful.

The ball making two distinct trips toward the basket/backboard -- interrupted by a trip away -- must count as two distinct tries, IMO.

[BBrules]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

A1 drives along the endline and secures the ball in her left hand as she jumps for a layup. She is fouled by B1 in the air and the ball pops out of her left hand...while in the air she grabs the ball with both hands in front of her chest and then throws up the ball with the right hand. Ball enters basket. What do you got?

I just have a question: It seems from this sit that the ball was knocked from her hand rather than her actually shooting it. Does this still qualify as a 'try'? I may not be reading this right, but it seems the sequence was up for a shot, ball is knocked from her hand, she recovers ball and shoots with right hand before landing again. Is this correct?

[Vinski]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The ball making two distinct trips toward the basket/backboard -- interrupted by a trip away -- must count as two distinct tries, IMO.

Is the ball popping out of her hand a distinct trip or simply a fumble?
I’m not saying one way or another because I'm not quite sure. Because if this scenario happens except she never leaves the floor, I would certainly wave the basket. However, if she leaves the floor and fumbles the ball due to contact, recovers and gets the ball off before landing, I think I would count it.