IAABO OOB mechanics

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That line itself is also the leads PCA.

According to the old NFHS (I'm not familiar with the new NFHS guidelines), you are correct. The new IAABO guidelines have the lead's PCA, regarding boundary line responsibilities, only as far as the free throw line extended.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The only person who can reliably make determinations on whether a player has stepped on a line or not is the official who is looking down that line.

And, or course, half the time, both coaches have the best look at a player stepping on that sideline. Give both of them a "table side sideline out of bounds between the free throw lines extended only Fox 40 whistle".

Camron Rust: You're preaching to the choir. I really liked the simplicity of the old NFHS, and old IAABO, boundary line responsibility mechanics. I guess that IAABO wants to stress the importance of staying in one's primary coverage area, even in regard to boundary line responsibilities, and wants to avoid ball watching at all costs. I'm not defending IAABO mechanics, I'm just trying to explain their reasoning. In any case, I'm not a rebel, I usually do what I'm told, so I reluctantly use the new IAABO boundary line responsibility guidelines, after pregaming the heck out of them.

[JRutledge]

Well it is not the old mechanic from the NF, that is the current mechanic. The NF has never changed this mechanic to my knowledge because this has been the mechanic for the Lead to have the line on their side of the court all the way up the court.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it is not the old mechanic from the NF, that is the current mechanic. The NF has never changed this mechanic to my knowledge because this has been the mechanic for the Lead to have the line on their side of the court all the way up the court.

Smart move on their part. All of our young officials are taught, and use, the "lead up to the free throw line extended sideline boundary responsibility guideline". Many of our veteran (read old) officials still use the (old, and current) NFHS "lead up to backcourt endline sideline boundary responsibility guideline". When a veteran works with a young partner, it can lead to problems that often happen in an area of the court where the coaches often have the best look. Bert Lance was right, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The issue is not whether you know if the ball is out of bounds. The issue is do you know who it is was out of bounds off of? And if you are doing your job as the Lead, you probably are not always aware of that fact. At least when we use two person, it is for lower level games. I cannot imagine the decisions having to work high level varsity with only two officials for this reason. I got to watch players in the post and be aware of how the ball is being defended on the sideline. This is one of the biggest flaws/holes in 2 person mechanics IMO.

Peace

It's still the L's whistle. That was my point.

I may need to get help as the L, but I'm still blowing my whistle on balls leaving the court on my lines -- and that includes my sideline in a 2-person crew.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I guess that IAABO wants to stress the importance of staying in one's primary coverage area, even in regard to boundary line responsibilities, and wants to avoid ball watching at all costs. I'm not defending IAABO mechanics, I'm just trying to explain their reasoning.

So, IAABO has basically decided the more likely play that needs to be covered (player with the ball stepping OOB) is less important than a play 30+ feet from the ball since the trail can't cover that play and they don't want the lead looking for it.

And for that matter, taking a look at my line isn't ball watching if it is my responsibility. I'm not covering the defender, just the line. Sometimes, proper coverage leads to two officials looking NEAR the same area but not watching the same things.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's still the L's whistle. That was my point.

I may need to get help as the L, but I'm still blowing my whistle on balls leaving the court on my lines -- and that includes my sideline in a 2-person crew.

It is their primary, but it might not be something they even know they should blow the whistle on if they are not very experienced in that system.

Heck even when I have worked these games after almost exclusively working 3 person, I have to remember to keep an eye on the line as the lead.

I am not saying that the Trail should make the call, I am just saying they are the one that likely saw how the ball got out of bounds.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... I have to remember to keep an eye on the line as the lead.

And with the "new and improved" IAABO guidelines, I have to remember, as the trail, to keep my eye on the far sideline above the free throw line extended, including the far sideline in the backcourt. I would be lying to you if I said that over the past several years I have worked games during which there have been no pregnant pauses between the ball going out of bounds and a whistle sounding, which can be pretty embarrassing when the ball is sitting on a coach's lap.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've heard this thinking before. I've completely ignored it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

When I was there, (WIAA) almost everyone I worked with used this mechanic. It was a NASO recommendation at the time and I liked it. Now doing 2-person in AZ where everyone looks at me like I'm an alien if I suggest it, I miss it. Trail needs to move along the arc to midcourt to get proper angle if the play dictates.

Roger

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mregor

When I was there, (WIAA) almost everyone I worked with used this mechanic. It was a NASO recommendation at the time and I liked it. Now doing 2-person in AZ where everyone looks at me like I'm an alien if I suggest it, I miss it. Trail needs to move along the arc to midcourt to get proper angle if the play dictates.

Roger

And the trail still can't even half-way reliably see if a player steps on or dribbles on the side line or not. To see that, the trail would have to come within about 10' of the far sideline, much farther than midcourt. If they need to do that, maybe they should just do a cross-court rotation and stay over there. Or, leave the coverage of the line itself to the lead but have coverage of balls knocked out go to the trail.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

And the trail still can't even half-way reliably see if a player steps on or dribbles on the side line or not. To see that, the trail would have to come within about 10' of the far sideline, much farther than midcourt. If they need to do that, maybe they should just do a cross-court rotation and stay over there. Or, leave the coverage of the line itself to the lead but have coverage of balls knocked out go to the trail.

If I understand his comments, he is not talking about making a call on the sideline, but to move closer to the play instead of being glued to the sideline the Trail is located by. That is the exact same mechanic we recommend folks use here in our state in a 2 person game. It is not about the line, it is about the movement to show you are on-ball so the lead can concentrate on coverage in their primary.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mregor

When I was there, (WIAA) almost everyone I worked with used this mechanic. It was a NASO recommendation at the time and I liked it. Now doing 2-person in AZ where everyone looks at me like I'm an alien if I suggest it, I miss it. Trail needs to move along the arc to midcourt to get proper angle if the play dictates.

Roger

I move all I want. It's still not my line.

I've been here 14 years now. Still don't call the opposite sideline as a trail.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If I understand his comments, he is not talking about making a call on the sideline, but to move closer to the play instead of being glued to the sideline the Trail is located by. That is the exact same mechanic we recommend folks use here in our state in a 2 person game. It is not about the line, it is about the movement to show you are on-ball so the lead can concentrate on coverage in their primary.

Peace

Agree 100% with the points on the trail moving. The trail should be doing that even if the L has the sideline.

If the point is to keep the lead from even looking up the line at (as seemed to be the point), who is covering the line? The trail can't see it and the lead isn't looking there?

[JRutledge]

I think we are getting a few things mixed up here. There is a difference in calling a violation for a toe on the line, compared to throwing the ball out of bounds because you made a bad pass. One is easy for the Trail to recognized, the other is almost impossible to know it took place.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think we are getting a few things mixed up here. There is a difference in calling a violation for a toe on the line, compared to throwing the ball out of bounds because you made a bad pass. One is easy for the Trail to recognized, the other is almost impossible to know it took place.

Peace

Exactly.

And if the IAABO mechanic is so that the lead doesn't look up the sideline so they can keep their vision on the post, who is going to cover the line?

Is the posted information just incomplete and that it only applies to the ball being thrown OOB???

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by stripes

In my neck of the woods, we are not IAABO, but we have used this "mechanic" for more than 20 years. More often than not, the T will have a better look at the play than the L. Especially if the ball is high and there is post play on the L's side. The L can always make the call if the L sees the OOB, but it is generally called by the T. Very easy to do.

I agree. Stripes and I are in the same area and we have done it this way for Two decades. For those interested NBA two man mechanics has done it this way....the simplest way to explain this, ball is in trails primary and trail is on ball. Lead if officiating correctly is not looking at the ball. There are gaps in a 2 person crew. This is one. Trail works arc and can see these plays. I'd much rather miss a toe on the line than some serious off ball garbage in the post. Tare a look at NFHS mechanics manual when lead goes strong side, trail ends up covering the far side of paint and may have the best whistle.

This may be blunt but the some games I have had problems with on this are when officials get too rigid about "that's my line " nonsense. I don't want trail blowing the end line but in two person, strong side game there is more fluidity

For those that think the 2person strong side game is baloney, re read the mechanics manual...