IAABO OOB mechanics

[stripes]

Originally Posted by constable

I was reading through the IAABO 2 person manual. It says that if the ball goes OOB above the FTE on the lead's sideline, the trail while working the arc, is responsible for the OBB call.

How ridiculous is this? My local board doesn't employ this logic. Does anyone other IAABO board use it?

In my neck of the woods, we are not IAABO, but we have used this "mechanic" for more than 20 years. More often than not, the T will have a better look at the play than the L. Especially if the ball is high and there is post play on the L's side. The L can always make the call if the L sees the OOB, but it is generally called by the T. Very easy to do.

[BryanV21]

Like Bob was saying, it doesn't make sense to me because the T has a horrible view of the opposite sideline. The L should be the 1st responsible for the OOB call, while the T steps in either for help or if the L misses the call.

I can't tell you how many times I've made OOB calls based on the ball or a player's foot barely touching the line. And in those cases, it's going to be really difficult for the official on the opposite side of the court to see that.

Look, in 2-man there are going to be missed plays, leading to complaints from coaches and others. Even in 3-man there are going to be missed plays. We can't see every inch of the court at all times.

With that said, though... when in Rome.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Like Bob was saying, it doesn't make sense to me because the T has a horrible view of the opposite sideline. The L should be the 1st responsible for the OOB call, while the T steps in either for help or if the L misses the call.

I can't tell you how many times I've made OOB calls based on the ball or a player's foot barely touching the line. And in those cases, it's going to be really difficult for the official on the opposite side of the court to see that.

Look, in 2-man there are going to be missed plays, leading to complaints from coaches and others. Even in 3-man there are going to be missed plays. We can't see every inch of the court at all times.

With that said, though... when in Rome.

I think the play they are talking about is when the ball is knocked OOB, not when a player steps on the line. In those cases, both are going to easily know when it goes out but it is far more likely that T will know who touched it last.

In the case of a player stepping on the line, only the L has decent view of that.

[deecee]

I make it a point in all pre-games that I will blow the whistle on ANY OOB on my lines, I just may ask for help. There is 1 exception and that's in transition with a backcourt pass that goes out on my sideline and I am moving down court. This is the only acceptable time for the T to call an OOB on L's line, mostly because my entire back may be to the play.

Frequency of occurrence: 1 per 5 years.

[JRutledge]

If it is obvious, the lead might not be watching the ball going out of bounds. Now a touching the line or ball hitting the sideline will be the lead's call, but the ball clearly going out of bounds where it hits a wall or goes into the stands, the Trail might be on ball and obviously tell who put the ball out of bounds. You have to work together. I think the Trail should blow the whistle if the ball clearly goes out of bounds, but look to the Lead for help. It is a huge flaw in the mechanics already so there is no perfect way to handle this either way.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is a huge flaw in the mechanics already so there is no perfect way to handle this either way.

Well said. It's the biggest problem in a two person game. It's something that always has to be pregamed, and even then, the coaches may have the best look at a player stepping on a table side sideline, certainly a much better look than the trail from over on the opposite table side.

And the lead's not even "supposed" to be looking there, it's outside of his primary. He's "supposed" to be watching the post players beating the heck out of each other.

It certainly "is a huge flaw in the mechanics" of a two person game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by constable

I was reading through the IAABO 2 person manual. It says that if the ball goes OOB above the FTE on the lead's sideline, the trail while working the arc, is responsible for the OBB call.

How ridiculous is this? My local board doesn't employ this logic. Does anyone other IAABO board use it?

Originally Posted by stripes

In my neck of the woods, we are not IAABO, but we have used this "mechanic" for more than 20 years. More often than not, the T will have a better look at the play than the L. Especially if the ball is high and there is post play on the L's side. The L can always make the call if the L sees the OOB, but it is generally called by the T. Very easy to do.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If it is obvious, the lead might not be watching the ball going out of bounds. Now a touching the line or ball hitting the sideline will be the lead's call, but the ball clearly going out of bounds where it hits a wall or goes into the stands, the Trail might be on ball and obviously tell who put the ball out of bounds. You have to work together. I think the Trail should blow the whistle if the ball clearly goes out of bounds, but look to the Lead for help. It is a huge flaw in the mechanics already so there is no perfect way to handle this either way.

Peace

What IAABO has done in its Mechanics Book has put into writing what Stripes has said has been done for over twenty years across the country.

The L's Side Line is always (with apologies to "you know who"). The IAABO mechanic is a guideline for when the L has major coverage issues directly in front of him and the ball gets knocked out-of-bounds above the FT Line Extended that the L does not know that the Ball has gone out-of-bounds.

I remember, as if it were yesterday, a game in the AAU Boys' 13U Nationals in the late 1990s (not 1890s Billy, ), and Daryl H. Long (aka "The Preacher" on the Forum was my partner). I was the L when a 3-pt FGA was taken from his side of the court. I had a lot of action in the paint. The FGA attempt was unsuccessful and rebounded back toward the top of the key and then was batted with great velocity out-of-bounds above the FT Line Extended. The amount of time between the FGA being missed and being batted out-of-bounds was less than I could count 3 seconds in the paint, and yet I knew the ball had been batted toward my Side Line but the action of bodies banging in the paint had my attention and Daryl had to stop the clock and make the call.

The thing to remember is that these types of plays may only happen one or two times a game. The key is to be prepared to step and help your partner. If a HC does not like the T making the call, tell him to pay for three officials, .

MTD, Sr.

[Kelvin green]

Originally Posted by stripes

In my neck of the woods, we are not IAABO, but we have used this "mechanic" for more than 20 years. More often than not, the T will have a better look at the play than the L. Especially if the ball is high and there is post play on the L's side. The L can always make the call if the L sees the OOB, but it is generally called by the T. Very easy to do.

I agree. Stripes and I are in the same area and we have done it this way for Two decades. For those interested NBA two man mechanics has done it this way....the simplest way to explain this, ball is in trails primary and trail is on ball. Lead if officiating correctly is not looking at the ball. There are gaps in a 2 person crew. This is one. Trail works arc and can see these plays. I'd much rather miss a toe on the line than some serious off ball garbage in the post. Tare a look at NFHS mechanics manual when lead goes strong side, trail ends up covering the far side of paint and may have the best whistle.

This may be blunt but the some games I have had problems with on this are when officials get too rigid about "that's my line " nonsense. I don't want trail blowing the end line but in two person, strong side game there is more fluidity

For those that think the 2person strong side game is baloney, re read the mechanics manual...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kelvin green

I don't want trail blowing the end line but in two person ...

Devil's Advocate here: In IAABO two person mechanics, the sideline boundaries are the responsibility of the primary coverage area officials, but on the front court endline, the lead has responsibility for the entire endline, even the portion outside of his primary coverage area, while the trail has a primary coverage area that does not include a frontcourt endline boundary responsibility.

Goose-gander?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Devil's Advocate here: In IAABO two person mechanics, the sideline boundaries are the responsibility of the primary coverage area officials, but on the front court endline, the lead has responsibility for the entire endline, even the portion outside of his primary coverage area, while the trail has a primary coverage area that does not include an endline boundary responsibility.

Goose-gander?

Umm, who is responsible for the backcourt endline?

That gives the Trail 3 boundary lines to deal with: his sideline, the division line, and the backcourt endline.

[BillyMac]

I'm playing Devil's Advocate here:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Umm, who is responsible for the backcourt endline?

... The trail, because it's in his primary coverage area, as is the division line, the near sideline, and the far sideline above the free throw line extended. A small portion of the frontcourt endline is also part of the trail's primary coverage area, but he's not responsible for the boundary line there.

IAABO took away the lead's sideline boundary above the free throw line extended because it didn't want the lead ball watching. But it wants the lead to ball watch when the ball goes out of bounds, or a player steps on the boundary, on the entire frontcourt endline, even though a portion of it (the far side) is outside the lead's primary coverage area.

As the lead, if I'm watching for the legality of a weak side screen in the paint, how can I also watch for a player stepping a half inch on the frontcourt endline when said player is all the way down in the opposite corner, dozens of feet away from me, and several feet outside of my primary coverage area (again, Devil's Advocate here)?

Does IAABO want us to call boundaries in our primary coverage areas, and not ball watch, or does it want to give us some simple boundary responsibilities, like the good old (IAABO) days, and not have to mentally debate whether, or not, the out of bounds violation is above, or below, the free throw line extended?