IAABO OOB mechanics

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Look, I get the lead not knowing who it went out off of, but I can't remember an instance where I wasn't aware it went out.....

And I need more help as the lead in 3-person than 2 it seems.

The issue is not whether you know if the ball is out of bounds. The issue is do you know who it is was out of bounds off of? And if you are doing your job as the Lead, you probably are not always aware of that fact. At least when we use two person, it is for lower level games. I cannot imagine the decisions having to work high level varsity with only two officials for this reason. I got to watch players in the post and be aware of how the ball is being defended on the sideline. This is one of the biggest flaws/holes in 2 person mechanics IMO.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In the case of a player stepping on the line, only the L has decent view of that.

How can the lead have a decent view if he's not even looking over there because it's outside his primary coverage area? He's watching post players, and defenders, banging around in the paint, maybe watching for three seconds. He's not watching the point guard about to step on the sideline boundary above the free throw line extended, maybe near the division line. That would be ball watching.

Granted, this is a challenge for the trail, especially after a skip pass, but at least it's in the trail's primary coverage area.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The issue is not whether you know if the ball is out of bounds. The issue is do you know who it is was out of bounds off of? And if you are doing your job as the Lead, you probably are not always aware of that fact ... This is one of the biggest flaws/holes in 2 person mechanics.

Agree 100%.

Back in the olden days, IAABO used NFHS mechanics and had the lead's out of bounds responsibility include the entire sideline, all the way back to the backcourt endline. It was a simple guideline to follow, and would occasionally have the lead sounding his whistle for the out of bounds, and then asking the trail for help on the correct direction call. The simplicity was the best part of the mechanic, even if the out of bounds responsibility above the free throw line extended was clearly outside the lead's primary coverage area.

Then IAABO changed to IAABO mechanics and ended the lead's out of bounds responsibility at the free throw line extended. A lot of old timers, including myself, resisted the change. It required the lead, and the trail, to decide if the ball went out above, or below, the free throw line extended, definitely more complex then the old, simple, out of bounds responsibilities. Occasionally there would be no immediate whistle when the ball went out of bounds above the free the line extended, with both the trail, and the lead, thinking that the other was going to sound the whistle for the ball going out of bounds.

It took some time, but we're all starting to get use to the new out of bounds responsibilities. The topic is broached in almost every pregame conference. It's not a perfect guideline, but in the grand scheme of things, regarding primary coverage responsibilities, it makes a lot of sense.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How can the lead have a decent view if he's not even looking over there because it's outside his primary coverage area? He's watching post players, and defenders, banging around in the paint, maybe watching for three seconds. He's not watching the point guard about to step on the sideline boundary above the free throw line extended, maybe near the division line. That would be ball watching.

Granted, this is a challenge for the trail, especially after a skip pass, but at least it's in the trail's primary coverage area.

2-person is a game of compromises. When the player gets that close to the sideline, the lead just has to give up the post momentarily and look up the sideline. That line itself is also the leads PCA. There is no way a T, even one who has great movement, will have the angle to see a player stepping OOB unless it is far OOB. A ball that is knocked out and lands in the first row, sure, but not one that goes 1" OOB.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Then IAABO changed to IAABO mechanics and ended the lead's out of bounds responsibility at the free throw line extended. A lot of old timers, including myself, resisted the change. It required the lead, and the trail, to decide if the ball went out above, or below, the free throw line extended, definitely more complex then the old, simple, out of bounds responsibilities. Occasionally there would be no immediate whistle when the ball went out of bounds above the free the line extended, with both the trail, and the lead, thinking that the other was going to sound the whistle for the ball going out of bounds.

It took some time, but we're all starting to get use to the new out of bounds responsibilities. The topic is broached in almost every pregame conference. It's not a perfect guideline, but in the grand scheme of things, regarding primary coverage responsibilities, it makes a lot of sense.

I think it only makes sense when the ball is knocked OOB. I think it makes no sense when the actual question is whether the player stepped on the line or dribbled the ball on the line. The trail just can't see those things. There is no amount of responsibility shifting and understanding that will allow the trail to see something that isn't visible from any normal trail position. The only way that "might" work is if the trail came all the way across to get in line with the far sideline, effectively forcing a cross court rotation.

The only person who can reliably make determinations on whether a player has stepped on a line or not is the official who is looking down that line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That line itself is also the leads PCA.

According to the old NFHS (I'm not familiar with the new NFHS guidelines), you are correct. The new IAABO guidelines have the lead's PCA, regarding boundary line responsibilities, only as far as the free throw line extended.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The only person who can reliably make determinations on whether a player has stepped on a line or not is the official who is looking down that line.

And, or course, half the time, both coaches have the best look at a player stepping on that sideline. Give both of them a "table side sideline out of bounds between the free throw lines extended only Fox 40 whistle".

Camron Rust: You're preaching to the choir. I really liked the simplicity of the old NFHS, and old IAABO, boundary line responsibility mechanics. I guess that IAABO wants to stress the importance of staying in one's primary coverage area, even in regard to boundary line responsibilities, and wants to avoid ball watching at all costs. I'm not defending IAABO mechanics, I'm just trying to explain their reasoning. In any case, I'm not a rebel, I usually do what I'm told, so I reluctantly use the new IAABO boundary line responsibility guidelines, after pregaming the heck out of them.

[JRutledge]

Well it is not the old mechanic from the NF, that is the current mechanic. The NF has never changed this mechanic to my knowledge because this has been the mechanic for the Lead to have the line on their side of the court all the way up the court.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well it is not the old mechanic from the NF, that is the current mechanic. The NF has never changed this mechanic to my knowledge because this has been the mechanic for the Lead to have the line on their side of the court all the way up the court.

Smart move on their part. All of our young officials are taught, and use, the "lead up to the free throw line extended sideline boundary responsibility guideline". Many of our veteran (read old) officials still use the (old, and current) NFHS "lead up to backcourt endline sideline boundary responsibility guideline". When a veteran works with a young partner, it can lead to problems that often happen in an area of the court where the coaches often have the best look. Bert Lance was right, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I guess that IAABO wants to stress the importance of staying in one's primary coverage area, even in regard to boundary line responsibilities, and wants to avoid ball watching at all costs. I'm not defending IAABO mechanics, I'm just trying to explain their reasoning.

So, IAABO has basically decided the more likely play that needs to be covered (player with the ball stepping OOB) is less important than a play 30+ feet from the ball since the trail can't cover that play and they don't want the lead looking for it.

And for that matter, taking a look at my line isn't ball watching if it is my responsibility. I'm not covering the defender, just the line. Sometimes, proper coverage leads to two officials looking NEAR the same area but not watching the same things.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The issue is not whether you know if the ball is out of bounds. The issue is do you know who it is was out of bounds off of? And if you are doing your job as the Lead, you probably are not always aware of that fact. At least when we use two person, it is for lower level games. I cannot imagine the decisions having to work high level varsity with only two officials for this reason. I got to watch players in the post and be aware of how the ball is being defended on the sideline. This is one of the biggest flaws/holes in 2 person mechanics IMO.

Peace

It's still the L's whistle. That was my point.

I may need to get help as the L, but I'm still blowing my whistle on balls leaving the court on my lines -- and that includes my sideline in a 2-person crew.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's still the L's whistle. That was my point.

I may need to get help as the L, but I'm still blowing my whistle on balls leaving the court on my lines -- and that includes my sideline in a 2-person crew.

It is their primary, but it might not be something they even know they should blow the whistle on if they are not very experienced in that system.

Heck even when I have worked these games after almost exclusively working 3 person, I have to remember to keep an eye on the line as the lead.

I am not saying that the Trail should make the call, I am just saying they are the one that likely saw how the ball got out of bounds.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... I have to remember to keep an eye on the line as the lead.

And with the "new and improved" IAABO guidelines, I have to remember, as the trail, to keep my eye on the far sideline above the free throw line extended, including the far sideline in the backcourt. I would be lying to you if I said that over the past several years I have worked games during which there have been no pregnant pauses between the ball going out of bounds and a whistle sounding, which can be pretty embarrassing when the ball is sitting on a coach's lap.