3rd Strike Caught on the Bounce

[bniu]

I hammer called strikes 1/2 and point for swinging strikes 1/2. I do whatever I'm in the mood for called strike 3. For a swinging strike 3, if it's caught, I let the batter leave and I casually record the out with the hammer. For a dropped strike 3, I just throw my right arm out to the side and say strike 3 loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear it. Haven't gotten any complaints for the many years I've used this combo.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by CoachPaul

Some umpires signal each strike with a fist. I don't like that. We point and verbalize or simply verbalize the strike. With a ball in the dirt offered at by the batter we verbalize clearly "strike three" but don't ring him up like we would on a caught third strike. In the absence of the emphatic call, both the catcher and the hitter know something remains unsettled and there is still action to be taken

There's really nothing wrong with using the hammer (i.e. fist) as the mechanic for calling a strike. Basically, umpires are either "hammer" or "pointer" guys. Both are perfectly acceptable and you see this at the MLB-level, as well.

In the case of an uncaught third strike, the hammer-guy is OK as long as he immediately follows it up with the safe signal and says, "no catch". This seems to be the MLB mechanic that I've seen and it seems to work perfectly fine. This all evolved as a result of the Doug Eddings incident in the 2005 ALCS.
RealClearSports - Top 10 Blown Calls in Baseball History - Doug Eddings, Uncaught Third Strike, 2005 ALCS Game 2

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by bniu

For a dropped strike 3, I just throw my right arm out to the side and say strike 3 loud enough for the batter and catcher to hear it. Haven't gotten any complaints for the many years I've used this combo.

The only problem with this mechanic is that the catcher cannot see your extended arm. He can hear you say "Strike three" but that would not necessarily convey to him (the catcher) that you consider it an uncaught third strike.

Sure, oftentimes it's obvious that the ball was not caught. But, other times, the ball may short hop into the catcher's glove. Let's face it - the plate umpire has a horrible view of this - and often cannot see it at all. The plate umpire may be wrong that the ball short hopped into the catcher's glove. The catcher thinks he caught it ... he hears you say "Strike three" ... and he has no awareness that the batter is not out.

I think it's important to say "no catch", especially in those situations where it's not obvious that the ball was not caught. This gives the catcher the opportunity to tag the batter quickly and render moot whether you were right or wrong about the catch.

Most teams do not have a problem with the plate umpire ruling a third strike as uncaught, thinking it short hopped into the catcher's glove, when the catcher actually caught it - as long as the umpire makes this known to them immediately.

[refinks]

Here's my question, as the base umpire, if you have definitive knowledge that a third strike was uncaught, do you give your partner help right away? I've been told yes by some and no by some. I know this situation may depend on the umpire, but is there a mechanic that the base umpire should use?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by refinks

Here's my question, as the base umpire, if you have definitive knowledge that a third strike was uncaught, do you give your partner help right away? I've been told yes by some and no by some. I know this situation may depend on the umpire, but is there a mechanic that the base umpire should use?

We always have a sign that BU uses on this--have one sign for caught, another for uncaught. It's given on every 3rd strike that may have the question.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by refinks

Here's my question, as the base umpire, if you have definitive knowledge that a third strike was uncaught, do you give your partner help right away? I've been told yes by some and no by some. I know this situation may depend on the umpire, but is there a mechanic that the base umpire should use?

I think this is a critical pre-game briefing item between the umpires.

Whenever I work the plate, another thing I brief my partner is that if he thinks the pitch hit the batter to go ahead and call it immediately - even if I do not call it; because, quite frankly, for those pitches in the dirt near the batter's feet, it's difficult to see whether the ball clipped the runner on the leg or may have hit his pants. The catcher often blocks the PU's view of this. If my partner sees the pitch hit the batter I want him to *immediately* call it in much the same way as he would call a foul ball off the batter's foot. I have had no complaints about this as most everybody accepts that the BU has a pretty good view of this - especially when he is in the "B" or "C" position.

[Rich]

I am happy to provide input if asked, but there's no way I call a HBP from the bases. Ever.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am happy to provide input if asked, but there's no way I call a HBP from the bases. Ever.

I agree. Neither would I. That's why I brief this before the game starts. So, in effect, I am asking my partner. I'm asking him to make the call if he sees it. If he refuses because he's not comfortable making that call - that's OK.

There is a trend in umpiring and that is increased emphasis on "getting it right" and less emphasis on "That's not my call."

[Rich]

I'm happy to get it right...the right way. This isn't the right way.

Why don't you call check swing strikes without being asked as the BU?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm happy to get it right...the right way. This isn't the right way.

Why don't you call check swing strikes without being asked as the BU?

... because the rules specifically mention the teams being able to demand (OBR) or request (FED) a "2nd opinion" on a checked swing. It is a customary part of the game. That is not the case with a HBP. So, it's up to the umpires to come up with some way of "getting it right".

As the BU, do you call foul balls that hit off the foot of the batter without being asked even though the PU is standing 5-feet from the event? I really do not see the big difference. Like I said, it's a briefing item. If you and I were working together you could simply say, "I'm not making that call - you'll have to ask me." I'd be fine with that. Of course, I wouldn't ask you unless one team started grumbling about my no-call. "Blue! That ball hit him!" ... and then what? I must come to you? I should come to you? I should stick with my no-call? All we are really adding is the element of grumbling prior to "getting it right".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

... because the rules specifically mention the teams being able to demand (OBR) or request (FED) a "2nd opinion" on a checked swing. It is a customary part of the game. That is not the case with a HBP. So, it's up to the umpires to come up with some way of "getting it right".

As the BU, do you call foul balls that hit off the foot of the batter without being asked even though the PU is standing 5-feet from the event? I really do not see the big difference. Like I said, it's a briefing item. If you and I were working together you could simply say, "I'm not making that call - you'll have to ask me." I'd be fine with that. Of course, I wouldn't ask you unless one team started grumbling about my no-call. "Blue! That ball hit him!" ... and then what? I must come to you? I should come to you? I should stick with my no-call? All we are really adding is the element of grumbling prior to "getting it right".

Yes. You are the only person I've ever heard in 28 years of umpiring HS and college baseball that would even consider calling a HBP from the bases.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

Yes. You are the only person I've ever heard in 28 years of umpiring HS and college baseball that would even consider calling a HBP from the bases.

Add my 22. I think the discussion in the locker room with an official who called HBP from the bases with me at PU would not be a pleasant one. And I think that if I ever called this, I'd expect a bit of a dressing down in the locker room myself.

David keeps pointing to "getting it right"... I'm sorry - an umpire from 90-150 feet away does not replace the judgement of an umpire 5-10 feet away without the latter umpire's admission (to self) that he was blocked out on something and that latter umpire requesting input from the former.

IOW, if two people see the same play and both people think they saw everything they need to - but they differ on outcome, I'm trusting the guy 5-10 feet away over the guy 90-150 feet away. Our mechanics are drawn up that way in general for a reason.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm happy to get it right...the right way. This isn't the right way.

Why don't you call check swing strikes without being asked as the BU?

There actually is a pro mechanic where if you have a swing on an uncaught 3rd, the BU can rule strike unsolicited.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

There actually is a pro mechanic where if you have a swing on an uncaught 3rd, the BU can rule strike unsolicited.

I'm not talking about the voluntary strike (which I'm well aware of) -- I'm talking about any ole' check swing. I mean, we want to get it right, after all.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Add my 22. I think the discussion in the locker room with an official who called HBP from the bases with me at PU would not be a pleasant one. And I think that if I ever called this, I'd expect a bit of a dressing down in the locker room myself.

David keeps pointing to "getting it right"... I'm sorry - an umpire from 90-150 feet away does not replace the judgement of an umpire 5-10 feet away without the latter umpire's admission (to self) that he was blocked out on something and that latter umpire requesting input from the former.

IOW, if two people see the same play and both people think they saw everything they need to - but they differ on outcome, I'm trusting the guy 5-10 feet away over the guy 90-150 feet away. Our mechanics are drawn up that way in general for a reason.

I had this in a softball game once. The umpire was in the C position when a pitch bounced in the dirt. From my angle the ball hit the dirt on the edge of the hole in the batters box and kicked sideways, never touching the batter. As I am calling ball, I hear "Dead Ball, hit by pitch". We have a little chat and he insists it hit her foot. I let the call stand, but later made it clear that I did not appreciate his making the HBP call from the bases. If I asked for help it would be one thing, but let me ask for help if there is a question, don't just make the call.