3rd Strike Caught on the Bounce

[easygoer]

HS game, no outs, no runners

Pitcher throws a ball in the dirt that bounces in front of the plate and is caught by the catcher, the batter has swung. the umpire hollers strike 3 with his fist in the air. Coach instructs catcher to throw the ball around . Batter ruled safe at first. What should the proper sequence have been? Confusion caused by third strike call then fist in the air.
Thanks

Easygoer

[bob jenkins]

A pitch that bounces cannot be a caught strike (well, unless the pitch is then foul tipped)

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

A pitch that bounces cannot be a caught strike (well, unless the pitch is then foul tipped)

Bob is correct.

[jicecone]

Bob is correct that it is not a caught strike however, it is a strike and in this case strike three. The confusion may have been the fact that the umpire indicated an out on the play (closed fist) but, there was also confusion by the player and coach not knowing the rules about a third strike not caught by a catcher.

[johnnyg08]

Players are responsible for knowing the situation.

[DG]

Umpire should signal strike, and then signal and say "no catch" to signify to all that it is not a caught third strike.

[Rich]

I am happy to provide input if asked, but there's no way I call a HBP from the bases. Ever.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am happy to provide input if asked, but there's no way I call a HBP from the bases. Ever.

I agree. Neither would I. That's why I brief this before the game starts. So, in effect, I am asking my partner. I'm asking him to make the call if he sees it. If he refuses because he's not comfortable making that call - that's OK.

There is a trend in umpiring and that is increased emphasis on "getting it right" and less emphasis on "That's not my call."

[Rich]

I'm happy to get it right...the right way. This isn't the right way.

Why don't you call check swing strikes without being asked as the BU?

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm happy to get it right...the right way. This isn't the right way.

Why don't you call check swing strikes without being asked as the BU?

... because the rules specifically mention the teams being able to demand (OBR) or request (FED) a "2nd opinion" on a checked swing. It is a customary part of the game. That is not the case with a HBP. So, it's up to the umpires to come up with some way of "getting it right".

As the BU, do you call foul balls that hit off the foot of the batter without being asked even though the PU is standing 5-feet from the event? I really do not see the big difference. Like I said, it's a briefing item. If you and I were working together you could simply say, "I'm not making that call - you'll have to ask me." I'd be fine with that. Of course, I wouldn't ask you unless one team started grumbling about my no-call. "Blue! That ball hit him!" ... and then what? I must come to you? I should come to you? I should stick with my no-call? All we are really adding is the element of grumbling prior to "getting it right".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

... because the rules specifically mention the teams being able to demand (OBR) or request (FED) a "2nd opinion" on a checked swing. It is a customary part of the game. That is not the case with a HBP. So, it's up to the umpires to come up with some way of "getting it right".

As the BU, do you call foul balls that hit off the foot of the batter without being asked even though the PU is standing 5-feet from the event? I really do not see the big difference. Like I said, it's a briefing item. If you and I were working together you could simply say, "I'm not making that call - you'll have to ask me." I'd be fine with that. Of course, I wouldn't ask you unless one team started grumbling about my no-call. "Blue! That ball hit him!" ... and then what? I must come to you? I should come to you? I should stick with my no-call? All we are really adding is the element of grumbling prior to "getting it right".

Yes. You are the only person I've ever heard in 28 years of umpiring HS and college baseball that would even consider calling a HBP from the bases.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rich

Yes. You are the only person I've ever heard in 28 years of umpiring HS and college baseball that would even consider calling a HBP from the bases.

Add my 22. I think the discussion in the locker room with an official who called HBP from the bases with me at PU would not be a pleasant one. And I think that if I ever called this, I'd expect a bit of a dressing down in the locker room myself.

David keeps pointing to "getting it right"... I'm sorry - an umpire from 90-150 feet away does not replace the judgement of an umpire 5-10 feet away without the latter umpire's admission (to self) that he was blocked out on something and that latter umpire requesting input from the former.

IOW, if two people see the same play and both people think they saw everything they need to - but they differ on outcome, I'm trusting the guy 5-10 feet away over the guy 90-150 feet away. Our mechanics are drawn up that way in general for a reason.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Add my 22. I think the discussion in the locker room with an official who called HBP from the bases with me at PU would not be a pleasant one. And I think that if I ever called this, I'd expect a bit of a dressing down in the locker room myself.

David keeps pointing to "getting it right"... I'm sorry - an umpire from 90-150 feet away does not replace the judgement of an umpire 5-10 feet away without the latter umpire's admission (to self) that he was blocked out on something and that latter umpire requesting input from the former.

IOW, if two people see the same play and both people think they saw everything they need to - but they differ on outcome, I'm trusting the guy 5-10 feet away over the guy 90-150 feet away. Our mechanics are drawn up that way in general for a reason.

I had this in a softball game once. The umpire was in the C position when a pitch bounced in the dirt. From my angle the ball hit the dirt on the edge of the hole in the batters box and kicked sideways, never touching the batter. As I am calling ball, I hear "Dead Ball, hit by pitch". We have a little chat and he insists it hit her foot. I let the call stand, but later made it clear that I did not appreciate his making the HBP call from the bases. If I asked for help it would be one thing, but let me ask for help if there is a question, don't just make the call.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm happy to get it right...the right way. This isn't the right way.

Why don't you call check swing strikes without being asked as the BU?

There actually is a pro mechanic where if you have a swing on an uncaught 3rd, the BU can rule strike unsolicited.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

There actually is a pro mechanic where if you have a swing on an uncaught 3rd, the BU can rule strike unsolicited.

I'm not talking about the voluntary strike (which I'm well aware of) -- I'm talking about any ole' check swing. I mean, we want to get it right, after all.