BOT question

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

FWIW BOOT can be appealed by anyone on the defensive team. Doesn't have to be a fielder.

Correct

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

Would it make any difference in cases b or c if R2 were on 1B and ran to second on the pitch? Yes. since his advance was technically forced due to the batter becoming a runner, his advance would be nullified upon appeal.

Even if he ran on the pitch?

[bsaucer]

Originally Posted by yawetag

If the manager asks me, I'll probably tell him. I wouldn't offer the answer, though. Of course, if he's smart, he'll know it's the next batter after the one that was called out.

Do you tell him which batter is called out?

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Even if he ran on the pitch?

Yes, unless he safely arrived at 2nd before the pitch, he is a forced runner and thus must return to 1st.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

Do you tell him which batter is called out?

Absolutely. And, if asked, you can tell then who should be up next. That's if he asks.

I've had situations where they are just mad, gripe about the rules ("can't the kids just play ball"), the proceed to send up another wrong batter. That's when you, as the umpire, have a choice. You can say, "You need 13 in the box", or just let things go. Depending on how much of a jackass the O manager was, of course.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Nope. If he doesn't ask, I don't offer, no matter how little of a jackass he was. And, while we're at it, I wouldn't correct him if he asked and then brought up the wrong batter. For all I know, he's purposely doing it.

I understand that viewpoint, for most levels of ball. But if it's lower level, instructional type ball, and the manager asks who should be the proper batter, after a BOOT out, I'll tell him.

[rbmartin]

Down at the Cal Ripken level, I would probably walk the coach through this issue, but at a High School level, definitely not. If a coach asks , I would probably say something like "your last proper batter was Baker, your lineup card should say who is next". They should know the rules. I wouldn't tell him how to coach properly any more than I would tell a hitter how to hit better.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

Down at the Cal Ripken level, I would probably walk the coach through this issue, but at a High School level, definitely not. If a coach asks , I would probably say something like "your last proper batter was Baker, your lineup card should say who is next". They should know the rules. I wouldn't tell him how to coach properly any more than I would tell a hitter how to hit better.

Just answer the question. If you don't, you'll just be dealing with another BOO appeal (legitimate or not) in a few seconds when he gets in the box, and you'll have to answer it then, anyway.

[UmpTTS43]

In all three scenarios the runner must return when the BOO appeal is upheld. The advancement was made while the batter turned into a batter runner. Advancements can only be made while the illegal person up is considered a batter.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by UMP45

They don't bat out of turn. They bat out of order. BOO

The title of the rule is a misnomer, regardless.

It isn't illegal to bat out of turn; it is illegal to fail to bat in turn.

It is B3's turn to bat, but B4 bats. B4 has not committed a violation, but B3 has. Upon proper appeal, B3 is out.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

In all three scenarios the runner must return when the BOO appeal is upheld. The advancement was made while the batter turned into a batter runner. Advancements can only be made while the illegal person up is considered a batter.

Wrong in all three cases.

What you said is true if the runner is FORCED to advance when the batter becomes a B/R, but R2 isn't forced in any of those situations.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 receives a base on balls, on which ball 4 is a wild pitch. R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 returns, R3 scores.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 swings and misses at an uncaught third strike, upon which R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 remains at 2nd, R3 scores.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Publius

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 receives a base on balls, on which ball 4 is a wild pitch. R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 returns, R3 scores.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 swings and misses at an uncaught third strike, upon which R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 remains at 2nd, R3 scores.

The proper batter is out, not B7.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by Publius

Wrong in all three cases.

What you said is true if the runner is FORCED to advance when the batter becomes a B/R, but R2 isn't forced in any of those situations.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 receives a base on balls, on which ball 4 is a wild pitch. R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 returns, R3 scores.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 swings and misses at an uncaught third strike, upon which R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 remains at 2nd, R3 scores.

Being forced has nothing to do whether a runner has to return or not. If a runner advances when the batter becomes a runner, they must return. The only time advancements stand is when they are made while the illegal player is a batter. The fact that a pitch is a passed ball is irrelevant since that pitch makes the batter a batter runner.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Publius

Wrong in all three cases.

What you said is true if the runner is FORCED to advance when the batter becomes a B/R, but R2 isn't forced in any of those situations.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 receives a base on balls, on which ball 4 is a wild pitch. R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 returns, R3 scores.

R1, R3, one out. Improper batter B7 swings and misses at an uncaught third strike, upon which R1 advances to 2nd and R3 advances to the plate. Defense makes a proper appeal. B7 is out, R1 remains at 2nd, R3 scores.

Wrong player out, and the rest is all wrong too. No advances that occur after B becomes BR stand. R3 does not score in either case.

(And now that I say that, the back of my head is tickling me that this might be ruleset specific... where are those books now.... )

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wrong player out, and the rest is all wrong too. No advances that occur after B becomes BR stand. R3 does not score in either case.

(And now that I say that, the back of my head is tickling me that this might be ruleset specific... where are those books now.... )

Here's an email response from Jim Paronto (NCAA) on how to handle it, at least there (the question relates to improper batter, ball4/wild pitch):


You are correct. The advance by R2 was on a wild pitch, which just happened to be ball four. Had it been ball three, he still would have advanced. Leave him at second, call the improper batter out and get the correct hitter to the plate.





Thanks for asking.


Jim