The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #76 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapopez View Post
Does everyone in the one base camp agree with me "technically"? .
Obviously not.

I posted somewhere what I think the basic mistake the "two base" believers are making. I do not think a jump turn requires that the pivot foot remain on or in front of the rubber. It can go behind the rubber. It's how you execute the jump that matters, not where your pivot foot lands.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #77 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:11pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Pot meet kettle.

If you think it was a jump turn, then why do you keep posting novels that it wasn't. (If you can't answer that in 4 sentences, I won't read it so don't bother.)
Did you actually read the section "Jump Turn" in my novel?
  #78 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:12pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Obviously not.

I posted somewhere what I think the basic mistake the "two base" believers are making. I do not think a jump turn requires that the pivot foot remain on or in front of the rubber. It can go behind the rubber. It's how you execute the jump that matters, not where your pivot foot lands.
Did you actually read the section "Jump Turn" in my novel?
  #79 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:23pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Rich Ives,

I've added you to the one base camp.
  #80 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 05:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapopez View Post
Did you actually read the section "Jump Turn" in my novel?
It's a different opinion. So what?
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #81 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 05:10pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
No, it's the same opinion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
It's a different opinion. So what?
... but somehow you come to a different conclusion. I FULLY agree with you when you say, "I do not think a jump turn requires that the pivot foot remain on or in front of the rubber. It can go behind the rubber. It's how you execute the jump that matters, not where your pivot foot lands." The second paragraph in my "Jump Turn" section illustrates that I agree with this.

I directed several questions in my "Jump Turn" section to one basers. Care to address any of them?
  #82 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 05:59pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Is it pride?

The secondmost pervasive myth in this thread is that a "jump turn" (including those jump turns in which the pitcher first steps behind the rubber), in and of itself, negates 8.01(e).

For those who agree with the above, that is, for those for whom the above statement is not a myth, cite the rule that supports it, and thereby supersedes 8.01(e).
  #83 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 06:05pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Back to the MLB umpires

Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
Yawn, pass. It's a jump turn, ruled a jump turn. I posted my view in post #6.

You go ahead with whatever it is you think you're doing.
I did not add them to the tally in my novel because they have not posted to this thread. In light of the fact that many people here consider it a disservice to the umpires that we have the benefit of a slow motion replay, I refuse to assume that the umpires were able to ascertain that Cain stepped back.

But again, please, keep bringing up the red herrings, Maven.
  #84 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 07:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,236
8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
  #85 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 07:43pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.
I'm sorry, I cannot speak to what you are saying without reading the text of the MLBUM, for which I have been tearing up my room looking for. Would you mind quoting the pertinent section?

ETA: I cannot believe I can't find my MLBUM. I'm so frustrated right now. Sorry.

Last edited by Lapopez; Tue Oct 30, 2012 at 07:57pm.
  #86 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:11pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
I don't mean to be rude, but I'm calling BS on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.
[Sorry, I went to CDP in July and my MLBUM was still in my suitcase!]

I cannot find any such language, Rich. I found this though, "It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base." (Bold emphasis is original to citation.)

Wow! Bob's quote was from 1999. When did the MLBUM become publicly available? He sure was ahead of his time.
  #87 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:27pm
JJ JJ is offline
Veteran College Umpire
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: IN
Posts: 1,122
It was a jump turn.

Or not.

JJ
  #88 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:30pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
I think you have something there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ View Post
It was a jump turn.

Or not.

JJ
Let me catch you up in the thread. No one is disputing that Cain executed a jump step anymore. (I never did.)
  #89 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:54pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Edinburg, TX
Posts: 1,212
Send a message via ICQ to Carl Childress
Bob P is from San Francisco. The email I have is not active.

Mr. Lopez wrote me to ask my opinion. Here is my reply:

I stayed out of the thread because a lot of other "Big Dogs" went with the MLBUs.

They're wrong, at least according to the video.

It seems obvious that Cain disengaged by stepping back of the pitcher's plate. When he threw away the ball, that's the classic example of: "One from the mound, two from the field."

My opinion: The crew missed it. They has been a lot of rationalizing and bombast. But where I've called, if I didn't send that runner to third, I would have to send the offensive coach to the showers.

You may quote me on this in your next post.

Paul replied he wouldn't quote me. So ... I've quoted myself.

Let me add this: Where I've called, on the jump spin the pitcher's pivot foot NEVER winds up behind the rubber. Generally, it's more toward the third-base side of the diamond. I'm talking about games played from PONY through NCAA D1 and MSBL games.

Someone wrote about balking this move if the pitcher DID NOT throw to first. If it's a jump spin, then BALK. If it's a step off the rubber (as the video shows), it's not a balk but a bluff.

Two bases, guys. Two bases, guys.

Oh, I called my first game in March of 1954. My most recent game was fall high school ball on Thursday, October 25.
__________________
Papa C
My website
  #90 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:57pm
I hate Illinois Nazis
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 157
Thanks Carl!

I'm going to grab a seat on the sidelines now. I'll update the tally on election day, November 6, 2012.

ETA: I've got:
One Base Camp=13
Two Base Camp=8 (Thanks, Carl)
Unknown=1 (JJ)

Last edited by Lapopez; Tue Oct 30, 2012 at 09:02pm. Reason: The Tally
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4 Base Award / Abandoning Base NCASAUmp Softball 20 Tue Jul 06, 2010 07:28am
3 Base Award? BigUmp56 Baseball 46 Wed Feb 22, 2006 02:27pm
Base Award LDUB Baseball 6 Wed Apr 21, 2004 07:39am
Base Award Rick Vietti Baseball 5 Wed Aug 06, 2003 01:33pm
1 or 2 Base Award? insatty Baseball 26 Sat Mar 15, 2003 04:39pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:27pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1