NLCS blown base award

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Rich

Do you have a tl;dr version of the novel above?

Yes, OBR 8.01(e).

[Lapopez]

The biggest myth perpetuated in this thread is that in order to apply 8.01(e), a pitcher must disengage, that is, step back AND drop his hands. Invoking 8.01(e) ONLY requires that the pitcher step back, not also drop his hands.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

The best I can tell, here’s the tally:

One Base Camp (11): Maven, UES, Welpe, Steven Tyler, Bob Jenkins, MD Longhorn, RPatrino, Rich, Mrumpiresir, DG, Jicecone. (Notice any big dogs?)

You omitted the 6 professional umpires working the game, whose call was the only one that mattered.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

The biggest myth perpetuated in this thread is that in order to apply 8.01(e), a pitcher must disengage, that is, step back AND drop his hands. Invoking 8.01(e) ONLY requires that the pitcher step back, not also drop his hands.

Ok, but in this instance, hasn't the pitcher started the throw to first before he finished stepping back? So he had not yet complied with 8.01(e) because he threw to first while in the process of stepping back.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by maven

You omitted the 6 professional umpires working the game, whose call was the only one that mattered.

No, I addressed this in the section "Umpire Speculation." Please, keep it coming.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Ok, but in this instance, hasn't the pitcher started the throw to first before he finished stepping back? So he had not yet complied with 8.01(e) because he threw to first while in the process of stepping back.

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

Then rewatch the video

Seriously though, the turn to first starts at the shoulders while the pivot foot is in the air.

[UES]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

The best I can tell, here’s the tally:

One Base Camp (11): Maven, UES, Welpe, Steven Tyler, Bob Jenkins, MD Longhorn, RPatrino, Rich, Mrumpiresir, DG, Jicecone. (Notice any big dogs?)

Two Base Camp (7): Lapopez (me), RPumpire, ZM1283, Umpjim, Manny A, JohnnyG08, Dash_Ripock.

Unknown (1): Rich Ives

I only need to sway three people, and there are seven days left until the election!

--Paul

Lapopez/Paul,

This may sound like a "political" answer, however, I will say it anyways... the Cain move, TECHNICALLY, may be considered as a throw by an infielder (ie., step back off the rubber = two base award). With that said, his move was so unique and happened so fast that I myself did not pick it up in real time and since 6 other MLB guys on the field took a pass at it, then I will go with the masses. As I mentioned, given the same circumstances in which the play happened, I think you would be taking the sh!tty end of the stick if you award the runner 3B (even though you may have been technically correct to do so).

Balks in general, can be a slippery slope. There are times when you have to enforce them to the letter of the law, and there are times where you just go with the flow and let the game play out. This move, in my opinion, was one of those times that you give the runner 2B (what 99.9% of the people that were playing & watching expected) and just move on. Ofcourse, if you're that guy who wants to prove to the world that you're technically right...be my guest. Do me a favor though, save it for a game that I'm not working on your crew

[Lapopez]

If the play were on an OBR umpire test, how would you answer?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

Was his pivot foot still in the air? I'm having a hard time visualizing a person having the ability to do that.

You don't have to attempt to visualize ... we're discussing an ACTUAL play here.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You don't have to attempt to visualize ... we're discussing an ACTUAL play here.

So the "wild throw" (yes, that's the verbiage in 8.01(e)) took place prior to Cain landing his pivot foot behind the rubber?

Before you answer that, consider Rule 7.05(g) AR: "The term “when the wild throw was made” means when the throw actually left the player’s hand..."

[Lapopez]

Does everyone in the one base camp agree with me "technically"? If you want to argue what is prudent "practically," lets start another thread. I'd like to debate the "technical" aspects in this thread, or at least wait until there is consensus on the "technical" before we go to the "practical." I do have opinions on the "practical" as well.

[maven]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

No, I addressed this in the section "Umpire Speculation." Please, keep it coming.

Yawn, pass. It's a jump turn, ruled a jump turn. I posted my view in post #6.

You go ahead with whatever it is you think you're doing.

[Lapopez]

Originally Posted by maven

Yawn, pass. It's a jump turn, ruled a jump turn. I posted my view in post #6.

You go ahead with whatever it is you think you're doing.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Lapopez

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

Pot meet kettle.

If you think it was a jump turn, then why do you keep posting novels that it wasn't. (If you can't answer that in 4 sentences, I won't read it so don't bother.)