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  #76 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapopez View Post
Does everyone in the one base camp agree with me "technically"? .
Obviously not.

I posted somewhere what I think the basic mistake the "two base" believers are making. I do not think a jump turn requires that the pivot foot remain on or in front of the rubber. It can go behind the rubber. It's how you execute the jump that matters, not where your pivot foot lands.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Pot meet kettle.

If you think it was a jump turn, then why do you keep posting novels that it wasn't. (If you can't answer that in 4 sentences, I won't read it so don't bother.)
Did you actually read the section "Jump Turn" in my novel?
  #78 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Obviously not.

I posted somewhere what I think the basic mistake the "two base" believers are making. I do not think a jump turn requires that the pivot foot remain on or in front of the rubber. It can go behind the rubber. It's how you execute the jump that matters, not where your pivot foot lands.
Did you actually read the section "Jump Turn" in my novel?
  #79 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 04:23pm
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Rich Ives,

I've added you to the one base camp.
  #80 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 05:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapopez View Post
Did you actually read the section "Jump Turn" in my novel?
It's a different opinion. So what?
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 05:10pm
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No, it's the same opinion...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
It's a different opinion. So what?
... but somehow you come to a different conclusion. I FULLY agree with you when you say, "I do not think a jump turn requires that the pivot foot remain on or in front of the rubber. It can go behind the rubber. It's how you execute the jump that matters, not where your pivot foot lands." The second paragraph in my "Jump Turn" section illustrates that I agree with this.

I directed several questions in my "Jump Turn" section to one basers. Care to address any of them?
  #82 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 05:59pm
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Is it pride?

The secondmost pervasive myth in this thread is that a "jump turn" (including those jump turns in which the pitcher first steps behind the rubber), in and of itself, negates 8.01(e).

For those who agree with the above, that is, for those for whom the above statement is not a myth, cite the rule that supports it, and thereby supersedes 8.01(e).
  #83 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 06:05pm
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Back to the MLB umpires

Quote:
Originally Posted by maven View Post
Yawn, pass. It's a jump turn, ruled a jump turn. I posted my view in post #6.

You go ahead with whatever it is you think you're doing.
I did not add them to the tally in my novel because they have not posted to this thread. In light of the fact that many people here consider it a disservice to the umpires that we have the benefit of a slow motion replay, I refuse to assume that the umpires were able to ascertain that Cain stepped back.

But again, please, keep bringing up the red herrings, Maven.
  #84 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 07:26pm
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8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 07:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.
I'm sorry, I cannot speak to what you are saying without reading the text of the MLBUM, for which I have been tearing up my room looking for. Would you mind quoting the pertinent section?

ETA: I cannot believe I can't find my MLBUM. I'm so frustrated right now. Sorry.

Last edited by Lapopez; Tue Oct 30, 2012 at 07:57pm.
  #86 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:11pm
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I don't mean to be rude, but I'm calling BS on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
8.01(e) does not apply because the jab step and jump steps are considered to be moves from the rubber.

IOW because they are from the rubber the bit about becoming an infielder because he stepped off doesn't apply because he's still considered on.

The ruling about the jab step is in writing in the MLBUM. The jump step is considered as being in the same category by interpretation.
[Sorry, I went to CDP in July and my MLBUM was still in my suitcase!]

I cannot find any such language, Rich. I found this though, "It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by moving his pivot foot in the direction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with the non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base." (Bold emphasis is original to citation.)

Wow! Bob's quote was from 1999. When did the MLBUM become publicly available? He sure was ahead of his time.
  #87 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:27pm
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It was a jump turn.

Or not.

JJ
  #88 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:30pm
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I think you have something there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ View Post
It was a jump turn.

Or not.

JJ
Let me catch you up in the thread. No one is disputing that Cain executed a jump step anymore. (I never did.)
  #89 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:54pm
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Bob P is from San Francisco. The email I have is not active.

Mr. Lopez wrote me to ask my opinion. Here is my reply:

I stayed out of the thread because a lot of other "Big Dogs" went with the MLBUs.

They're wrong, at least according to the video.

It seems obvious that Cain disengaged by stepping back of the pitcher's plate. When he threw away the ball, that's the classic example of: "One from the mound, two from the field."

My opinion: The crew missed it. They has been a lot of rationalizing and bombast. But where I've called, if I didn't send that runner to third, I would have to send the offensive coach to the showers.

You may quote me on this in your next post.

Paul replied he wouldn't quote me. So ... I've quoted myself.

Let me add this: Where I've called, on the jump spin the pitcher's pivot foot NEVER winds up behind the rubber. Generally, it's more toward the third-base side of the diamond. I'm talking about games played from PONY through NCAA D1 and MSBL games.

Someone wrote about balking this move if the pitcher DID NOT throw to first. If it's a jump spin, then BALK. If it's a step off the rubber (as the video shows), it's not a balk but a bluff.

Two bases, guys. Two bases, guys.

Oh, I called my first game in March of 1954. My most recent game was fall high school ball on Thursday, October 25.
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  #90 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 30, 2012, 08:57pm
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Thanks Carl!

I'm going to grab a seat on the sidelines now. I'll update the tally on election day, November 6, 2012.

ETA: I've got:
One Base Camp=13
Two Base Camp=8 (Thanks, Carl)
Unknown=1 (JJ)

Last edited by Lapopez; Tue Oct 30, 2012 at 09:02pm. Reason: The Tally
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