4 Base Award / Abandoning Base

[NCASAUmp]

ASA SP only.

Improbable scenario, but wondering what you all think.

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits a very high pop-up about 20 feet shy of the fence, but the fielder is parked under it. Batter thinks that's 3 outs, gets pissed, and stomps into the dugout. The fielder loses the ball in the sun, gets bonked on the head, and the ball goes over the fence in fair territory.

4 runs score? Or 3 outs, change 'em up?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

ASA SP only.

Improbable scenario, but wondering what you all think.

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits a very high pop-up about 20 feet shy of the fence, but the fielder is parked under it. Batter thinks that's 3 outs, gets pissed, and stomps into the dugout. The fielder loses the ball in the sun, gets bonked on the head, and the ball goes over the fence in fair territory.

4 runs score? Or 3 outs, change 'em up?

I think: 3 outs change them up. The ball became dead when the Batter Runner committed interference by abandoning his attempt to reach first base.
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Prilosec side effects

[MD Longhorn]

Committed interference? Huh? No. And the ball's not dead (if this happens with no outs, runners are free to run and/or tag up)

Result is correct though - 3 outs, no runs score.

[Welpe]

The ball IS dead though when the ball goes over the fence. Doesn't matter, I've got a DMB and the third out.

Why is this a SP only situation?

[MD Longhorn]

Correct Welpe - I should have been more specific. I was just disagreeing with "The ball became dead when the Batter Runner committed interference by abandoning his attempt to reach first base. "

[youngump]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Committed interference? Huh? No. And the ball's not dead (if this happens with no outs, runners are free to run and/or tag up)

Result is correct though - 3 outs, no runs score.

I don't have my 2010 rulebook with me but I found a 2006 online and I'm pretty sure that it still reads this way. 8-2-D (the effect is listed after H). The BR going into the dugout on a live ball is interference and the ball is dead.
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Recall Depakote

[Welpe]

You ready to float away yet Mike? I'm preparing my rubber raft for my commute home today.

[MD Longhorn]

Practically floated into work today. I drive the smaller vehicle in the family, and it's LOW - worried about flooding on the entrance and exit ramps of the highways, there was so much water. NOT looking forward to the drive home.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't have my 2010 rulebook with me but I found a 2006 online and I'm pretty sure that it still reads this way. 8-2-D (the effect is listed after H). The BR going into the dugout on a live ball is interference and the ball is dead.

That effect is supposed to read E-H... this has been talked about before. E-H ALL reference different types of interference, and have the word interference in them.

D is not interference, and does not have the word interference in it.

If it was correct that the ball was dead on D - all sorts of bad scenarios could present themselves. Runner or runners off on the pitch on a pop up in the infield. Before the ball can be caught, BR sees the potential double play and sprints for the dugout. Ditto on a double-play grounder.

I see where you're coming from though, and I thought we'd heard this was going to be fixed in the 2010 book.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

The ball IS dead though when the ball goes over the fence. Doesn't matter, I've got a DMB and the third out.

Why is this a SP only situation?

Because in ASA SP, they don't have to run the bases on a 4 base award.

Which brings me to my next question... Since the award is made on the runners' locations at the time of the pitch, do you think this changes anything?

[NCASAUmp]

I bring particular focus to the exception listed in 8-2-D.

ASA 8-2-D: Batter-Runner is out.

When the batter-runner fails to advance to first base and enters the team area after a batted fair ball, a base on balls in Fast Pitch or Slow Pitch with Stealing, a dropped third strike, or catcher obstruction.
EXCEPTION: (Slow Pitch) The ball is dead when runners are not required to run bases on a home run or four base award, or on a base on balls, or (Fast Pitch) on a hit batter. The batter-runner is not out. Other than on a home run or a four base award, runners cannot advance unless forced.

So do you still call the out?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Because in ASA SP, they don't have to run the bases on a 4 base award.

O I C...

Well I'm not sure then. Sorry for mucking up your thread.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Welpe

O I C...

Well I'm not sure then. Sorry for mucking up your thread.

If my thread helps anyone to learn something, then it's not mucked up in the least.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

ASA SP only.

Improbable scenario, but wondering what you all think.

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Batter hits a very high pop-up about 20 feet shy of the fence, but the fielder is parked under it. Batter thinks that's 3 outs, gets pissed, and stomps into the dugout. The fielder loses the ball in the sun, gets bonked on the head, and the ball goes over the fence in fair territory.

4 runs score? Or 3 outs, change 'em up?

Actually, not so improbable. Believe it or not I had almost the same sitch two weeks ago. Runners on 1st & 3rd, two outs. The only slight difference in mine is that the fielder did not get bonked on the head.

Here's what happened:

ASA Men's SP, local rec league. B1 hits a shot to the fence in left. Seeing F7 going back to the fence and reaching up to make to the catch, B1 figures it's caught (plus he doing the whole SP power hitter gyration act that they do when they"didn't get all of it") and heads into the 1st base dugout kicking dirt and bemoaning his misfortune. Well lo and behold, the ball clanked off of F7's glove and over the fence. I signal HR.
BU comes in, he wants to call B1 out for abandonment. I made the case for a four base award, dead ball, B1 not required to run the bases, score the 3 runs, how B1 reacted not a factor, bring up the next batter. We went with that, no argument from the defensive team.
Don't think for a minute as we're huddling to discuss this, that I'm saying to my P...."8.3 Exception yada yada..." We went to the book after the game at our cars and felt we were OK with how we ruled.
Now here's the part where I'm not 100% sure that I'm on solid ground. Are we to take into consideration B1's actions/reactions to the way he felt he hit the ball (in his mind a missed HR), and decide if that constitutes abandonment, in making our ruling?
I say no, as I don't feel that abandonment is an applicable ruling in either sitch. That being said...Dave, I'm going the same way in your sitch, score the four runs.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, if I'm going to be accused of playing word games, I just as well do it.

Speaking ASA

8.2.D states that the BR is out when s/he fails to advance to first base and enters the team area after a batted fair ball,...

The definition of batted ball is a pitched ball which hits the bat or is hit by the bat and lands either in fair territory or foul territory.

Therefore, if the BR left the field of play prior to the ball being touched by a fielder or touching the ground, fence, etc. the rule has yet to be effected since the ball is still in flight and doesn't meet the qualification of a batted ball, hence the exception cannot be applied.

So, what do you have now?