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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 07:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Of course it mattered. It changed the game.
You're kidding, right?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:13am
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The call was referred to in the headline in my morning paper.

Girardi spent a lot of time talking about it and how baseball "needs" expanded replay -- convenient for him that it left him less time to talk about his team managing 4 hits the entire game.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
You're kidding, right?
Wrong.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:36am
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another blown call yesterday...

did anyone see the other blown call? there was a catcher interference yesterday with Nix up the inning before the Cano mess... it killed a rally bc he should have had first base with Ichiro coming up. not a single person reacted, not an umpire, not the batter, not a coach, not even the idiot announcers who saw it on replay
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 55BLUE View Post
did anyone see the other blown call? there was a catcher interference yesterday with Nix up the inning before the Cano mess... it killed a rally bc he should have had first base with Ichiro coming up. not a single person reacted, not an umpire, not the batter, not a coach, not even the idiot announcers who saw it on replay
I have a hard time believing that if the announcers saw it, they didn't react.

How noticeable was it? If the batter and coaches didn't react, I have to believe it wasn't so blatant that it qualifies as a "blown call".
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 08:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Wrong.
Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:19am
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All the other arguments aside, what just annoys me to no end about this "gross miss" is that Nelson is at fault for failing to be in better position. I've heard the angle versus distance argument enough to know that Jeff Nelson should ABSOLUTELY know better than to run directly at the play while trying to make that call on the move. Angle versus distance should be second nature to Nelson. There is just NO EXCUSE for him not adjust his movement to be perpendicular to the play and to come set when the ball reaches the base so he can make the call from a set position. That is basic umpiring 101.

That an umpire who is deemed good enough to merit a postseason assignment fails at this most basic application of umpiring principles is very disappointing and turns out to be fairly embarrassing when it results in a gross miss.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:41am
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I kind of thought that.

However, I have never been trained on 4 or 6 man mechanics.

So, am I right in assuming that he did not have any responsibility other than this?

If so, there is no reason on earth that he should have been running. Where was he when he started running, for goodness sakes? The ball was hit to the OUTFIELD. He should have been in a good position and adjusted if necessary. The running was a huge miss and that caused him to miss the call, probably.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 09:54am
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Positioning aside, had Jeff Nelson been stopped for the call, he would have seen a "probable" (very high% because Infante slid right over the glove) tag occurring well before the runner's hand touched the base. Unless Infante miraculously missed the glove, he's out by a mile. The touch of the base was a secondary action - a bang (pause) bang play. Even if you can't see the physical contact between runner and glove, it's a very easy call. And it appeared Nelson was signaling Infante beat the tag, not that Cano missed the tag.

Awful. I feel bad for Nelson. I can imagine how he feels, and the fact that the Yanks were shut out doesn't help.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.
All missed calls affect the game. They might not affect the outcome. Yes, the Yankees still had a chance to get the third out without runs scoring. But, a 1-0 game with an inning that ends on a "high-energy" play is different from a 3-0 game where 4 pitchers (or whatever) were used to get the last out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jwwashburn View Post
I kind of thought that.

However, I have never been trained on 4 or 6 man mechanics.

So, am I right in assuming that he did not have any responsibility other than this?

If so, there is no reason on earth that he should have been running. Where was he when he started running, for goodness sakes? The ball was hit to the OUTFIELD. He should have been in a good position and adjusted if necessary. The running was a huge miss and that caused him to miss the call, probably.
Here's what I posted on another board about this:
I agree on the "moving" part. But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second. Why did he start there? Any play on R1 back into second would best be taken from (about) the baseline between first and second. So, move to / toward that spot as the ball is hit or when R1 rounds second.

If there's no play at second and a throw goes to third, and BR now tries for second, there's plenty of time to move.

Another possibility -- R1 tried the "show the hand and take it away" slide. I think maybe the umpire got caught up in watching that move and was expecting a tag attempt on the hand and then just missed the rest of the play.

Those are the lessons I am taking from the play, in an attempt to improve my umpiring.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.
Because of that call:

1. The Tigers got four outs and a free baserunner, which they turned into two extra runs.

2. Three extra batters came to the plate.

3. A pitching change was made. The removed pitcher had given up three hits, no walks and one (really unearned) run over eight innings.

4. The Tigers took the field in the bottom of the ninth with a three-run lead rather than a one-run lead. Do you think the pitching strategy might have changed a bit?

Would the Yanks have won the game had the call been correct? Probably not (especially with their pathetic bats). But to say it didn't matter is ridiculous. Ask Jeff Nelson if it mattered.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second.
Right, but shouldn't he have moved a lot earlier?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 10:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dash_riprock View Post
Because of that call:

1. The Tigers got four outs and a free baserunner, which they turned into two extra runs.

2. Three extra batters came to the plate.

3. A pitching change was made. The removed pitcher had given up three hits, no walks and one (really unearned) run over eight innings.

4. The Tigers took the field in the bottom of the ninth with a three-run lead rather than a one-run lead. Do you think the pitching strategy might have changed a bit?

Would the Yanks have won the game had the call been correct? Probably not (especially with their pathetic bats). But to say it didn't matter is ridiculous. Ask Jeff Nelson if it mattered.
All that aside, if the Yankees hit the ball and scored in innings 1-8, there wouldn't be a problem. So as I said, if 1 bad call blows your game, you didn't play hard enough!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:05am
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Originally Posted by jwwashburn View Post
Right, but shouldn't he have moved a lot earlier?
That's my entire point --either move earlier or start from closer to the correct spot.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Oct 15, 2012, 11:12am
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Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
All that aside, if the Yankees hit the ball and scored in innings 1-8, there wouldn't be a problem. So as I said, if 1 bad call blows your game, you didn't play hard enough!
This play did not cost the Yanks the game.

But, your comment is silly.

What if it is a tie game in the bottom of the ninth, the home team scores a run on a foul ball ruled to be a HR.

Did one bad call blow the game?
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