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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:32pm
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Originally Posted by johnnyg08 View Post
They wouldn't have signaled Time play here because there was only 1 out. These guys work together all year and often time many years in a row. I've watched for this at games I attend and some crews do it and some don't. Nobody I know signals "time play" with one out even though it is a possibility.

They got it wrong. I think the PU spaced out and didn't realize what it was until it was too late.
There were 2 outs.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:03pm
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Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
There were 2 outs.
I stand corrected. Thank you.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:00pm
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So basically the 2 minor league umps Fagan and Porter got their plays right. (Fagan on the call at 3rd and Porter by sleeping at the plate and making no call) and the the two ML umpires Winters and Wegner(ML??????????????XX) got it wrong.

Ok I will cut Winters some alack, he knew Porter was in trouble and immediately came into the plate to consult with Porter but on that play Winters has to wait back at 1b for a possible play there and probably has no angle ont that. So its Wegner at 2B who has no play to call, who has to help the helpless Porter on that one and obviously he was asleep also.

Whats sad here is that Porter is a solid umpire who should be promoted and probably will have ot wait a couple of years for that.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 21, 2012, 10:50am
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Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
You've also mentioned that you train umpires. Guess that goes without saying.
Yes I train them and they are trained to properly handle the Time Play. But unfortunately not all heed the training.
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Last edited by Rich; Fri Sep 21, 2012 at 11:14am. Reason: Personal comments removed.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 21, 2012, 11:13am
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Both of you, knock it off.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 21, 2012, 05:43pm
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Not that I'm looking for something to excuse the PU here, but ya gotta admit that the play was so unusual, it's quite possible that it caught him totally by surprise, and that's why he missed calling the Time Play at home.

Sometimes, the philosophy "Expect the Unexpected" that we preach to young umpires at the lowest levels is forgotten by seasoned veterans. I know I've been caught moving one way in anticipation of a play, or relaxing when I think a play isn't going to happen, and then something out of the ordinary catches me unprepared. This PU probably thought Zimm was going to field the ball cleanly and throw to first, and then when Zimm muffed it, he assumed there would be no play.

Stuff happens even in the pros. Being ready for that stuff is easier said than done.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Sep 21, 2012, 09:47pm
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Originally Posted by LeeBallanfant View Post
So basically the 2 minor league umps Fagan and Porter got their plays right. (Fagan on the call at 3rd and Porter by sleeping at the plate and making no call) and the the two ML umpires Winters and Wegner(ML??????????????XX) got it wrong.

Ok I will cut Winters some alack, he knew Porter was in trouble and immediately came into the plate to consult with Porter but on that play Winters has to wait back at 1b for a possible play there and probably has no angle ont that. So its Wegner at 2B who has no play to call, who has to help the helpless Porter on that one and obviously he was asleep also.

Whats sad here is that Porter is a solid umpire who should be promoted and probably will have ot wait a couple of years for that.
Actually, U2 has to be ready for a run down on this. He has to watch the play at 3B to see if R2 comes back or not. There is no help on this. PU is all alone and blew it.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 22, 2012, 07:19am
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Originally Posted by ozzy6900 View Post
Yes I train them and they are trained to properly handle the Time Play. But unfortunately not all heed the training.
I know that's right, and probably don't even know what a time play is. Comes without saying. Just an inexperience thing that comes with the territory.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat Sep 22, 2012, 10:22am
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A possible explanation that would make sense

Nats F2, Jesus Flores, had an interesting comment on the play in the W. Post. He said that he thought PU thought that the bases were loaded in which case in PU's mind, there would be no timing play on the first runner because the play at 3rd would be a force. That could explain why PU didn't even indicate whether or not the run scored after the 3rd out. Only when Mattingly came out to ask about the run did PU then realize that the out at 3rd was not a force.

The W. Post article didn't state whether Flores said that PU told him this or not, but this explanation is easier to conceive of than PU knowing that the runner on 3rd could be involved in a timing play but then forgetting to watch for the tag/touch. The T play signal would have been given, but PU would not be thinking that it applied to the lead runner.
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