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Old Wed Sep 19, 2012, 08:44pm
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Timing play signal in MLB

Are MLB umpires taught to give the timing play signal to each other with 2 outs and RISP. In the Was/LAD game LAD had a runners on 2nd and 3rd with a ground ball to F5 who knocked it down and tagged the approaching runner when the lead runner was 2 steps from home. PU didn't even realize a time play was happening and allowed Mattingly to talk him into allowing the run. It wasn't a blown call as much as PU was not even aware of his responsibility on the play. Even a decent HS crew would never make such a stupid mistake.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:05am
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Don't know what is taught, but I have seen the PU tap his wrist to indicate a potential time play.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:27am
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Kemp was still 15' from the plate when the 3rd out was made.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:28am
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Cost Washington the game!!!
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:22am
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Stupid replacement refs...

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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:10am
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http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?co...00161&c_id=mlb
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 09:23am
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I believe they still signal with a tap of the wrist however, this is like crrying an indicator in your hand or just not using one. In either case, there is no guarantee you are not going to screw something up.

As long as we have humans officiating and playing sports, there will be screw ups and therefore a topic for discussion on this forum, in are off time.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 10:13am
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Yes, they are taught to give a signal but like the infield fly signal, it doesn't always happen.

Yes, it does appear from the replay that the run was counted in error.

Yes, it did impact the final score although I would not go so far as to say it cost Washington the game (but then I still don't think Don Dinkingers call cost the Cardinals game 6 in '85 either).

Wrong, I have seen even a "decent HS crew" kick this call as well. Never one of my games though.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:18am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JR12 View Post
Cost Washington the game!!!
Then Washington didn't get enough runs! That's not the umpire's fault!
But the timing play was blown, big time!
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Last edited by ozzy6900; Thu Sep 20, 2012 at 11:21am.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTQ_Blue View Post
......Even a decent HS crew would never make such a stupid mistake.
Wanna bet? I see it all the time when I am evaluating members. I had at least seven of them this past season. And they all gave the old "fingers on the watch" signal. But if the PU doesn't line up the plate with the play, the time play will always be blown. That is what I find to be the biggest problem - lining up the plate and the play.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 11:31am
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This clip ends in "no run." Was it later changed? Major argument by Washington?
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 05:55pm
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Here's the anatomy of the call. As soon as the play happened, the radio guys (I heard the radio replay this morning, though I was watching on TV) noted that Alan Porter, PU, did not make a call on whether or not the run scored and the TV guys were saying that he was just standing at the plate like the usual between innings routine. That suggests that he checked out on the play and didn't realize that he had a call to make on the time play. So no call is made and Mattingly comes out to talk to Porter, by this time TV replays are showing that Kemp didn't come close to the plate at the time of the tag, and I'm expecting to see Porter telling Mattingly "no run," but then the crew goes into conference, and I knew (yes I'm a Nats fan) that this could mean trouble. He wouldn't be talking to the crew if he saw the play because it wasn't even close. Now from what Davey Johnson said in his postgame, he was told that none of the BUs said they could help; which is fair because there were 2 other runners on the loose to occupy the BUs. At this point Porter is out on a limb and he has a decision to make, allow the run or not. Here is where I think that professionalism would dictate don't allow the run if you can't be certain that it scored in time. Here is where the crew chief could have helped Porter. Porter has 2+ years of MLB experience, so the crew chief should have been telling him, "If you didn't see Kemp score in time, no run." What we get from Porter after the crew met is him pointing home saying score the run. Then Davey comes out and he tells Davey that he allowed the run because he saw him score in time. Well, then why didn't you signal right away and why did you conference. Answer, because you weren't paying attention and now you are compounding the blown coverage and poor professional judgement with poor integrity saying you saw something that didn't happen. So I think the play broke down on 4 levels, first, Porter didn't realize he had a time play, second, he never should have allowed a run he wasn't sure had scored, third, the crew chief could have helped him and didn't, and fourth he shot his integrity by essentially making up what he said to Johnson. I wonder how MLB will handle this kind of thing. I think its a lot more serious than a simple blown call on a bang bang play.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 07:04pm
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While I did read all that, paragraphing that would make your post more readable for all.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:10pm
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U1 and U2 did not have anything to do here so if any could help they could have. But it was PU's responsibility to know he has a call to make and make it.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2012, 08:24pm
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They wouldn't have signaled Time play here because there was only 1 out. These guys work together all year and often time many years in a row. I've watched for this at games I attend and some crews do it and some don't. Nobody I know signals "time play" with one out even though it is a possibility.

They got it wrong. I think the PU spaced out and didn't realize what it was until it was too late.
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