Dead Ball

[Mrumpiresir]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The OP doesn't say either way. If we're charitable to the BU and assume he was right, he must have ruled that R1 willfully and deliberately contacted the ball in order to break up a DP.

I'd rather assume that the umpire was right than that the coach was. I don't think that's a 50-50 proposition.

I think we are in agreement that if R1 was simply running to second and was hit, the batter would be awarded first. If the umpire judges a deliberate attempt to interfere and break up a double play, we should get two outs.

I didn't read into the OP that it was deliberate. When the original poster said "sounds incorrect to me", I was wanting to point out that without a deliberate intent to interfere, the batter would indeed be awarded first base.

[easygoer]

Thanks for the clarification. The runner hitting the ball was not intentional, not sure he could have done it on purpose if he wanted to.
Seems strange to award the batter first in this situation because the play was completed. I can see how it could go differently and I would want to argue that it is a dead ball. The ball again hits the runner unintentionally and goes into the outfield allowing the batter to advance to second or third, if I were on defense I would be ticked.
Why could this not be handled like a balk, delayed dead ball with the offense given the option. Balk but the pitch is made, ball is hit out of the park, play is accepted. Hell maybe that isn't correct either.

Thanks

Easygoer

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by easygoer

... Balk but the pitch is made, ball is hit out of the park, play is accepted. Hell maybe that isn't correct either.
Easygoer

In FED rules this too is incorrect. It's a no-pitch regardless of how much the offense wants to keep the play.
In OBR you may elect to keep the result of the play.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

In FED rules this too is incorrect. It's a no-pitch regardless of how much the offense wants to keep the play.
In OBR you may elect to keep the result of the play.

Not exactly in OBR.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Not exactly in OBR.

Correct, The batter and all base runners must advance 1 base. Thanks.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

Correct, The batter and all base runners must advance 1 base. Thanks.

I think his point included the fact that the offense never has a choice on a balk. If the BR and every runner fail to reach their advance base on the play, then the batter returns and the balk is enforced. No choice.

I expect you know this, but for newer umpires it can be confusing to remember what penalties permit a coach a choice.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I think his point included the fact that the offense never has a choice on a balk. If the BR and every runner fail to reach their advance base on the play, then the batter returns and the balk is enforced. No choice.

I expect you know this, but for newer umpires it can be confusing to remember what penalties permit a coach a choice.

Correct. I should have worded my response more precisely.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

In FED rules this too is incorrect. It's a no-pitch regardless of how much the offense wants to keep the play.

Right answer, but slightly misleading. After a balk in FED the ball is dead immediately. So the pitch can't happen, and there's no play for the offense to want to keep.

That's different from OBR, where the pitch can happen and be nullified (for a true "no-pitch") if the offense fails to advance everyone.

Subtle distinction, perhaps, but that's why we get the big money!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by easygoer

Seems strange to award the batter first in this situation because the play was completed. I can see how it could go differently and I would want to argue that it is a dead ball.

No judgment is required on this one: once you rule runner interference, the ball is dead immediately. Nothing afterward ever happened on that play, no matter where the ball ended up.

If the runner did not interfere willfully and deliberately, then the batter is awarded 1B. You can't call him out, and you can't send him back to the plate: what else are you going to do with him?