How to correct?

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

For judgement calls, I agree 100%. And as much as I respect what you say here 99.9% of the time - for rules misapplications I disagree with you 100%. Both the book and every clinic I've been to where this comes up tell you that it is the responsibility of BOTH umpires to ensure that the rules are applied correctly, and that protestable situations be avoided.

The coach has the right to protest the rule if he feels it is incorrect. That is when I will come to you and correct you and then insist you fix your mistake. Until that time, I will be far away from you. It is your job to com to our game with proper knowledge of the rules - if you can't do your job, why do you want me to intercede? I may as well take the game & a half fee and do the game myself!

Just saying!

[mbyron]

To the OP: this thread introduces you to something of a generational conflict in umpiring, between the "old school" view that you should do your job and let your partner do his, and the "new school" view that the crew should work together and do whatever it takes to get the call right.

In HS baseball, too often umpires (and here I do NOT mean Ozzy) adopt the "old school" approach in order to insulate themselves from criticism or improvement. In my state, the new school is pretty firmly entrenched, and to move up and get tournament assignments umpires have to embrace it.

[SE Minnestoa Re]

I've been umpiring for over 30 years so I must be an "old guy". However, I believe it is my job as an umpire to get the call right when it is said and done. Sometimes toes may be stepped on but generally not. On this play, if I had knowledge that the runner was past first base we would not be continuing until we got him set on the correct base. If I did not have knowledge but the parter said he was passed the base, we would not start until he was on 3rd.

[jicecone]

I agree with everyone here. If my partner didn't know this basic award and did not want to change his call, he would be learning it real fast during the game. If he was embarassed because of statements made to the coach or took it personnaly then sometimes you just have to learn things the hard way. I would go out of my way to get him to understand how the final outcome will be though and let him make the call.

Some may say this is the radical approach which is why I held off in my original response. But, in the end even the old guys would probably take this same approach.

[Dave Reed]

The coach has the right to protest the rule if he feels it is incorrect.

I used to believe that-- i.e. the proper procedure is to let an incorrect interpretation go unless a coaches protests. I've come to see it differently now that I've watched many games as an interested spectator while my son went from LL up into college ball. It gives a different perspective.

I now realize that for many reasons coaches are usually not in a position to protest. There may be travel limitations or tight schedules that don't easily permit replaying part of a game. Most teams have a pitching rotation which would be upset by replaying, and professional courtesy requires a coach to consider his opponent's situation as well. It seems that the higher the level of ball, the less likely that a coach can permit himself the luxury of protesting. High school ball seems to me to be in the toughest spot-- there's a wide dispersion in umpire competence, yet lots of impediments to the protest mechanism.

I've come to the personal conclusion that relying on protests to correct umpire error is wrong. It may be convenient and less stressful to the (usually) 2 man crew, but it is highly inconvenient to pretty much all other stakeholders at the game. If an umpire believes that a rules interpretation is incorrect, he has an obligation to the game participants to discuss it with his partner.

My opinion-- and yes, it can cause some friction!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

I've come to the personal conclusion that relying on protests to correct umpire error is wrong.

And in Ohio, not just wrong but impossible. Protests are not permitted in HS contests, period. So we HAVE to get it right on the field.

[MikeStrybel]

As a high school umpire, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure that rules are enforced properly. However, I am torn by the arguments here. No one wants a partner to make them look bad and few of us want to be that person. The HS rule book states "no umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it". That implies that one should not interject unless asked by the calling umpire or if the coach or captain believes a non-judgement issue is in question.

I encountered this last year during the playoffs. My partner ejected a player for wearing jewelry in the first inning. I rodeo clowned the upset team while my partner went about noting the ejection on his game card. The HC begged me to intercede, so I asked my partner if he warned the individual and he affirmed. I later found out that he had issued a 'warning' while checking helmets and bats pre-game. We all know that this doesn't count so let's not stray from the subject. Had I known the misapplication of the rule at the time I would have had to ask my partner to reconsider the ejection and attempt to put the genie back in the bottle. Yes, it would have been ugly but getting the call right is pretty important to our state association.

Sunny and 60 here today - finally a day without 35 mph winds! We should have a great afternoon DH on tap and I'm looking forward to abandoning multiple layers for a while. Enjoy your games.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

As a high school umpire, you have an ethical responsibility to ensure that rules are enforced properly. However, I am torn by the arguments here. No one wants a partner to make them look bad and few of us want to be that person. The HS rule book states "no umpire shall criticize or interfere with another umpire's decision unless asked by the one making it". That implies that one should not interject unless asked by the calling umpire or if the coach or captain believes a non-judgement issue is in question.

I encountered this last year during the playoffs. My partner ejected a player for wearing jewelry in the first inning. I rodeo clowned the upset team while my partner went about noting the ejection on his game card. The HC begged me to intercede, so I asked my partner if he warned the individual and he affirmed. I later found out that he had issued a 'warning' while checking helmets and bats pre-game. We all know that this doesn't count so let's not stray from the subject. Had I known the misapplication of the rule at the time I would have had to ask my partner to reconsider the ejection and attempt to put the genie back in the bottle. Yes, it would have been ugly but getting the call right is pretty important to our state association.

Sunny and 60 here today - finally a day without 35 mph winds! We should have a great afternoon DH on tap and I'm looking forward to abandoning multiple layers for a while. Enjoy your games.

I think your partner went OOO. I worked a three day tournament at the same school three days in row. I had to tell one kid from the same team three days in row to remove the jewelry from around his neck while checking the dugout.

I wouldn't look to eject in this situation, especially in a playoff game, unless it was the last resort.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The coach has the right to protest the rule if he feels it is incorrect. That is when I will come to you and correct you and then insist you fix your mistake. Until that time, I will be far away from you. It is your job to com to our game with proper knowledge of the rules - if you can't do your job, why do you want me to intercede? I may as well take the game & a half fee and do the game myself!

Just saying!

I understand your approach, and it may be true for some that if they can't do their job they don't want you interceding (although it's not true for me... if I somehow botch a rule, I want to know it and fix it right then). But I assure that (at least in my area and according to all the clinicians I've had that have addressed this), my ASSIGNOR and my ASSOCIATION wants you interceding if I or another umpire has botched one.